On the Missing Corpse of Jesus

[JoeyKnothead]

Some'll say Jesus hopped up and left that cave there, after he was dead.

Others'll say the missing corpse of Jesus can be better explained by the actions of the living.

For debate:
Which explanation is best? Why?

[Student]

Some'll say Jesus hopped up and left that cave there, after he was dead.

Others'll say the missing corpse of Jesus can be better explained by the actions of the living.

For debate:
Which explanation is best? Why?

Perhaps it might better be explained by the possibility that there never was a burial.

It was extremely unusual for the victim of crucifixion to be afforded the dignity of a decent burial. The usual practice was for the body to be left on the cross to rot, to act as a reminder to the local populace of what to expect if they opposed Roman rule.

[d.thomas]

It's a story so why the need to explain it? Acts of the Apostles describes Jesus ascending up into the clouds as his followers watched. Jesus rose from the dead because in the world of fiction, stuff like that happens.

[Flail]

Some'll say Jesus hopped up and left that cave there, after he was dead.

Others'll say the missing corpse of Jesus can be better explained by the actions of the living.

For debate:
Which explanation is best? Why?

If we are looking for how the resurrection could have actually occurred and, given the range of possible scenarios, one would have to include all the tricks man has been known to hatch to fool others, particularly those who want to believe in something magical. So either the death was faked in the first place or the body was removed and, after the passage of time, legend grew among the duped to the point of the tale being recorded as magical; and all the more reasonable explanations died away;just like the hatching after the fact of the virgin birth story etc. In the end, the overwhelming circumstantial evidence points to fiction and myth and not to anything actual/factual.

In order to render such stories as having actually occurred one needs to gather the credulous and indoctrinated together in an appropriate setting for creating an emotional rather than an intellectual response...it's the stuff of movies and church....music and stage props and lofty preaching coupled with ritual practices and chanting are common techniques used to overcome critical thinking, wherein all like and desirous minds can agree....and voila, myth becomes fact.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

None of the Christians on this forum will come anywhere near this subject, with the possible exception of a newbie.

[ThatGirlAgain]

Some'll say Jesus hopped up and left that cave there, after he was dead.

Others'll say the missing corpse of Jesus can be better explained by the actions of the living.

For debate:
Which explanation is best? Why?

Perhaps it might better be explained by the possibility that there never was a burial.

It was extremely unusual for the victim of crucifixion to be afforded the dignity of a decent burial. The usual practice was for the body to be left on the cross to rot, to act as a reminder to the local populace of what to expect if they opposed Roman rule.

.
All of the Gospels make a point of Joseph of Arimathea asking Pilate for the body. For example:

“Mark 15:43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body.�

It does not sound all that unreasonable that Pilate, remembering how popular Jesus was only a few days before and knowing the fickleness of mobs, might want the whole affair over and done with. Seeing the pitiful rotting body might sway public opinion and he had just put down one uprising.

“Mark 15:6 …A man called Barabbas was in prison with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the uprising.�

John even adds another reason for taking down the body.

“John 19:31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.�

The gospel writers appear to be aware of the problem and take measures to address it. Jesus getting buried is not really that big of a deal.

On the other hand the resurrection raises some serious questions. No believers or anyone else willing to spread the story actually see Jesus rising from the dead. Instead some total stranger(s) say “Oh yeah, he got up and walked away. No, we did not take the body and hide it.�

This was the payoff without which the whole incarnation, ministry and sacrifice would be pointless. Jesus would be just another nut who got nailed to a cross. Why was the resurrection not done with flashing lights, a booming God voice from the clouds and a giant audience in attendance? Why was it done in such a way as to leave so much doubt? The Gospels have Jesus giving lots of miraculous signs throughout his ministry to establish his authority. Why so obscure about such an important part of the story?

After the fact witnesses? No two stories agree on the details, even to the point of serious contradiction. Did the Apostles first see the risen Jesus in Jerusalem or Galilee, where they were told to go? And these eyewitnesses often fail to recognize Jesus, even those who knew him well in life. If this is the inspired word of God intended to convince the world of a miraculous event of great cosmic significance, why is it so confused and hard to take seriously?

[bjs]

None of the Christians on this forum will come anywhere near this subject, with the possible exception of a newbie.

This is probably true. Those of us who have been around for at least a few months have been down the road before. Atheists’ arguments inevitably fall into one of two camps.

1. There is no God and miracles are impossible. Therefore any non-miraculous explanation, no matter how nonsensical it is, must be preferred to a miraculous explanation.

2. If the evidence does point to Jesus rising from the dead then the evidence must have been faked. An unknown person at an unknown time fabricated the evidence. No matter how much evidence there is, it must all be fabricated. Of course we cannot prove that the written document were never fabricated or altered, and we cannot prove anything from the life of any individual from the ancient world without relying on written documents. Therefore we cannot prove that Jesus rose from the dead.

For most of us, one time down that road is enough to realize that the debate is pointless and we move on to other things.

[ThatGirlAgain]

None of the Christians on this forum will come anywhere near this subject, with the possible exception of a newbie.

This is probably true. Those of us who have been around for at least a few months have been down the road before. Atheists’ arguments inevitably fall into one of two camps.

1. There is no God and miracles are impossible. Therefore any non-miraculous explanation, no matter how nonsensical it is, must be preferred to a miraculous explanation.

2. If the evidence does point to Jesus rising from the dead then the evidence must have been faked. An unknown person at an unknown time fabricated the evidence. No matter how much evidence there is, it must all be fabricated. Of course we cannot prove that the written document were never fabricated or altered, and we cannot prove anything from the life of any individual from the ancient world without relying on written documents. Therefore we cannot prove that Jesus rose from the dead.

For most of us, one time down that road is enough to realize that the debate is pointless and we move on to other things.

I do not think my post falls into either one of those categories. Why not try me on for size?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 04&start=5

[EduChris]

...Why was the resurrection not done with flashing lights, a booming God voice from the clouds and a giant audience in attendance? Why was it done in such a way as to leave so much doubt?...If this is the inspired word of God intended to convince the world of a miraculous event of great cosmic significance, why is it so confused and hard to take seriously?

Suppose you had the flashing lights, the booming voice, and a giant audience to witness. Given all that, 2000 years ago, would you be convinced today? Or would you still doubt?

[ThatGirlAgain]

...Why was the resurrection not done with flashing lights, a booming God voice from the clouds and a giant audience in attendance? Why was it done in such a way as to leave so much doubt?...If this is the inspired word of God intended to convince the world of a miraculous event of great cosmic significance, why is it so confused and hard to take seriously?

Suppose you had the flashing lights, the booming voice, and a giant audience to witness. Given all that, 2000 years ago, would you be convinced today? Or would you still doubt?

I did not express doubt. I requested a reason to believe an unconvincing story. If there had been a vast audience and a public display with miraculous aspects it would have convinced a great many people including those who had no reason to want to believe. They would have written about it in detail and we would have those undisputable eyewitness records. We have Pliny telling us all about the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 CE. We do not have any eyewitness account of the actual resurrection but instead a story that almost begs to be disbelieved. If such a story were told about some other non-Christian religious figure, Christians would discount it.

In fact here is one example of such a story;

"65. One day at the street market Fuke was begging all and sundry to give him a robe. Everybody offered him one, but he did not want any of them. The master [Linji] made the superior buy a coffin, and when Fuke returned, said to him: "There, I had this robe made for you." Fuke shouldered the coffin, and went back to the street market, calling loudly: "Rinzai had this robe made for me! I am off to the East Gate to enter transformation" (to die)." The people of the market crowded after him, eager to look. Fuke said: "No, not today. Tomorrow, I shall go to the South Gate to enter transformation." And so for three days. Nobody believed it any longer. On the fourth day, and now without any spectators, Fuke went alone outside the city walls, and laid himself into the coffin. He asked a traveler who chanced by to nail down the lid. The news spread at once, and the people of the market rushed there. On opening the coffin, they found that the body had vanished, but from high up in the sky they heard the ring of his hand bell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection#Zen_Buddhism