Why do Atheists have a significantly higher rate of Suicide?

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Shermana
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Why do Atheists have a significantly higher rate of Suicide?

Post #1

Post by Shermana »

http://www.adherents.com/misc/religion_suicide.html

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article ... urnalID=13

According to the American Journal of Psychiatry, those who are religiously affiliated have a "significantly lower" rate of taking their own life.

Why do Atheists and those not religiously affiliated thus have a significantly higher rate? Is Society so overwhelmingly oppressive and religious that it causes the non-believers to want the fast way out? Do Atheists in general have a weaker will to live? Are religious people bullying them so they can't take it anymore? If so, why do countries like South Korea which are nearly 50% Atheist have one of the worst suicide rates? Is it just "part of their culture"?
Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members.
Now I know from personal experience at least, that Atheists having less contact with family members is not always (or usually) the result of being "shunned" by the religious members, but the result of the Atheist not wanting to be around the religious members. As for being "younger", it's the older folks have by far the highest suicide rate, so there's an anomaly in this variable. Does marriage prevent suicide? (You'd think from the anti-marriage rhetoric it's the opposite). If so, is there a corrolation with the tendency for Atheists to not get married?

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Post #21

Post by Clownboat »

Moses Yoder wrote:
Clownboat wrote:
Moses Yoder wrote:It is possible to skew statistics anyway you want. Just a thought here, and I haven't read the whole discussion. Have you looked at the suicide rate for people with bipolar disorder? From what I have seen at bipolarsupport.org, most of them are kind of angry at God for what He did to them, and the majority would probably consider themselves atheists. Not a scientific assessment, just my own personal experience. So here you have a mental disorder which tends to make people atheists and then kill themselves. Imagine that. I have to wonder about all sorts of people with incurable disorders and diseases; it would tend to make them hate God and want to take their own life.
I have to wonder why a god would allow a person to be born, knowing that they would suffer from one of these diseases that would cause them to lose their faith.
Well I don't know if the free will debate has come to any decisions, but my own personal belief is that we are dealt whatever cards God determines, and then we choose how we will react to our circumstances. If we choose to allow them to, bad circumstances will draw us closer to God, which is what I believe they are meant to do. On the other hand, we can choose to allow bad circumstances to make us first angry at whatever God we believe in, then totally deny that there is a God.

I think Joni Eareckson Tada is a good example of this. If not familiar, her story is easily accessed at wikipedia.
So you think a god would allow someone to be born with a disease that will cause them to lose their faith, and that is just meant to draw them closer to that god?

God: "I'm allowing you to be born with this disease that will cause you to lose your faith in order to draw you closer to me. :confused2:

Maybe I'm missing something, but that makes about as much sense as your comment about athiests hating god did.
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Moses Yoder
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Post #22

Post by Moses Yoder »

Clownboat wrote:
Moses Yoder wrote:
Clownboat wrote:
Moses Yoder wrote:It is possible to skew statistics anyway you want. Just a thought here, and I haven't read the whole discussion. Have you looked at the suicide rate for people with bipolar disorder? From what I have seen at bipolarsupport.org, most of them are kind of angry at God for what He did to them, and the majority would probably consider themselves atheists. Not a scientific assessment, just my own personal experience. So here you have a mental disorder which tends to make people atheists and then kill themselves. Imagine that. I have to wonder about all sorts of people with incurable disorders and diseases; it would tend to make them hate God and want to take their own life.
I have to wonder why a god would allow a person to be born, knowing that they would suffer from one of these diseases that would cause them to lose their faith.
Well I don't know if the free will debate has come to any decisions, but my own personal belief is that we are dealt whatever cards God determines, and then we choose how we will react to our circumstances. If we choose to allow them to, bad circumstances will draw us closer to God, which is what I believe they are meant to do. On the other hand, we can choose to allow bad circumstances to make us first angry at whatever God we believe in, then totally deny that there is a God.

I think Joni Eareckson Tada is a good example of this. If not familiar, her story is easily accessed at wikipedia.
So you think a god would allow someone to be born with a disease that will cause them to lose their faith, and that is just meant to draw them closer to that god?

God: "I'm allowing you to be born with this disease that will cause you to lose your faith in order to draw you closer to me. :confused2:

Maybe I'm missing something, but that makes about as much sense as your comment about athiests hating god did.
I don't believe a disease or bad circumstance causes a person to lose their faith. If I said that, I was wrong. I think when a lot of people are faced with bad circumstances, they choose to spit in God's face and deny His existence. Some people, on the other hand, embrace their bad circumstances and allow God to take care of them and draw closer to Him, which is what bad circumstances were meant to do.

In the Book of Job in the Bible, you can see where in the story Satan tells God that if Job was not blessed by God, Job would not have any love for God. God gives Satan permission to take all of Jobs possesions, including his children, and then also take Job's health. In the story Job ends up remaining true to God in spite of his wife who told him to curse God and die, and his friends who tell him he must have done something to deserve such punishment.

If athiests don't hate God, what are they doing on a board that debates Christianity? Not very logical either, as near as I can tell. Are you debating a non-existing object? How does that make sense?

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Post #23

Post by catalyst »

Mr Yoder wrote:
I think when a lot of people are faced with bad circumstances, they choose to spit in God's face and deny His existence.

With due respect Mr Yoder, it's quite irrational on your part to THINK the above is true. Unless of course that is what you personally have done and you are gauging others responses to situations on your own personal experience.

Some people, on the other hand, embrace their bad circumstances and allow God to take care of them and draw closer to Him, which is what bad circumstances were meant to do.
What type of bad circumstance are you referring to? A paper cut? Gluggy rice?

Catalyst.

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Post #24

Post by jmvizanko »

If athiests don't hate God, what are they doing on a board that debates Christianity? Not very logical either, as near as I can tell. Are you debating a non-existing object? How does that make sense?
Last time I checked this is the forum for debating Apologetics. Personally I'm mostly here for interesting conversations. I personally think Christianity is highly illogical, and therefore I am always curious to see what apologetic arguments can be conjured to oppose what I think. If you don't want to chat with atheists, and talk about the sort of ideas that will obviously appear in those chats, how about staying out of the Apologetics forum?
Faith is arbitrary. When you realize why you dismiss all the other gods people believe in, you will realize why I dismiss yours.

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Post #25

Post by Flail »

Moses Yoder wrote:
Clownboat wrote:
Moses Yoder wrote:
Clownboat wrote:
Moses Yoder wrote:It is possible to skew statistics anyway you want. Just a thought here, and I haven't read the whole discussion. Have you looked at the suicide rate for people with bipolar disorder? From what I have seen at bipolarsupport.org, most of them are kind of angry at God for what He did to them, and the majority would probably consider themselves atheists. Not a scientific assessment, just my own personal experience. So here you have a mental disorder which tends to make people atheists and then kill themselves. Imagine that. I have to wonder about all sorts of people with incurable disorders and diseases; it would tend to make them hate God and want to take their own life.
I have to wonder why a god would allow a person to be born, knowing that they would suffer from one of these diseases that would cause them to lose their faith.
Well I don't know if the free will debate has come to any decisions, but my own personal belief is that we are dealt whatever cards God determines, and then we choose how we will react to our circumstances. If we choose to allow them to, bad circumstances will draw us closer to God, which is what I believe they are meant to do. On the other hand, we can choose to allow bad circumstances to make us first angry at whatever God we believe in, then totally deny that there is a God.

I think Joni Eareckson Tada is a good example of this. If not familiar, her story is easily accessed at wikipedia.
So you think a god would allow someone to be born with a disease that will cause them to lose their faith, and that is just meant to draw them closer to that god?

God: "I'm allowing you to be born with this disease that will cause you to lose your faith in order to draw you closer to me. :confused2:

Maybe I'm missing something, but that makes about as much sense as your comment about athiests hating god did.
I don't believe a disease or bad circumstance causes a person to lose their faith. If I said that, I was wrong. I think when a lot of people are faced with bad circumstances, they choose to spit in God's face and deny His existence. Some people, on the other hand, embrace their bad circumstances and allow God to take care of them and draw closer to Him, which is what bad circumstances were meant to do.

In the Book of Job in the Bible, you can see where in the story Satan tells God that if Job was not blessed by God, Job would not have any love for God. God gives Satan permission to take all of Jobs possesions, including his children, and then also take Job's health. In the story Job ends up remaining true to God in spite of his wife who told him to curse God and die, and his friends who tell him he must have done something to deserve such punishment.

If athiests don't hate God, what are they doing on a board that debates Christianity? Not very logical either, as near as I can tell. Are you debating a non-existing object? How does that make sense?
You continually presume that anyone who doesn't buy your ancient, concocted notion of BibleGod is an atheist. As an Ignostic, I am neither a believer or a non-belever in 'God'. I debate here to determine what credible, verifiable evidence or logical coherence can be posited for the BibleGod. After more than four years, all I have discerned from believers are the myths and superstitions from and predating the first century, engendered not with evidence or logical coherence, but with verse based, hearsay scripturalism reinforced by dogma indoctrination and membership ritual practices akin to witchcraft.

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Post #26

Post by GiddyUp »

In my experience it has no bearing on ones happiness whether one is a theist or not. But of course, in the manner of the OP one might ask "Why are most murders committed by theists", maybe draw some conclusions disguised as questions at the same go. Now wouldn't that be jolly!

I know no productivity was wasted in this post.

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Post #27

Post by TheJackelantern »

Studies show that 87-98% of people who commit suicide have a diagnosed mental illness. One in six people are diagnosed with some form of depression. Christianity offers hope and solace to the indoctrinated and so perhaps the mentally ill and those suffering from depression are drawn to the superstitions offered by the faith, opting for delusion over suicide.
This is called cult indoctrination by preying on peoples weaknesses by such religions. It's actually quite disgusting. And, we can ask why Christians have a higher crime rate than atheists. I dunno, like burning witches for 300 years. Perhaps Atheists aren't the mentally ill ones.. You might find this article of interest:

Should Religious Fundamentalism be Considered a Mental Illness and Would That Include Some Politicians? Poll

Abstract: My own post:

This is a crazy good article! I do think that there is a dividing line between a belief and a point when a belief becomes a delusion projected in a form of fundamentalism. It becomes a point where they can't differentiate their beliefs from everyday reality to the point that everything not consistent with their beliefs become something to fear, or something of an abomination. This is how religions operate when they deal with indoctrination, and keeping the flock from straying away from the ideology.

It's the manipulation of human weakness and vulnerabilities to develop emotional and psychological bonds to which are often very similar to Stockholm and batter wife syndrome. Often where guilt is used as a tool to control and manipulate someone into being obediently devout, or to makes someone feel that they must obediently submit their lives to the ideology. Once this is done, it's almost impossible to deprogram someone who's been brainwashed. And that is because their psyche, social life, emotions, and reality become so blurred into the ideology that they can no longer tell the difference between reality and fantasy. They thus become easy to control in that regard. This is how cults work, and it's how major organized religion works.

Now it doesn't work on everyone. It's also not entirely impossible to deprogram if the individual can come to grips with what is wrong, or doesn't add up. And the religions and cults do everything they can to keep people from perusing or thinking about what is wrong with the ideology. They know that fear, social pressure, preying on their weaknesses, and dogma ect is necessary to keep people from actually evaluating and asking questions to which demand answers the religions or cults can not answer. Why else would religion and cults seek to attack the education systems in order to indoctrinate them.. Why do you think religion survives on ignorance?
I doubt if there are many that hate religion, I certainly don't and have two very devout Christians in my family. However, in their belief they have not limited their critical thinking in keeping up with the progress of the planet. I think that many are quite elemental in their beliefs as it allows them to feel safe. Those of us that have expanded our horizons find this curious but it is still a fact that it continues to be the path of some.
There are Christians who reject religion and the bible all together. My friend Sarah and her Family are devote Christians that believe the bible and modern religion are a perversion of sanity, and what they believe Christianity is supposed to be about. They think is about peace whether you believe or not. And they don't have a problem with the education system, or modern science. Their idea of GOD is like the idea of a Father who made "This Universe" and not necessarily the type of GOD people claim had made everything in existence. It's strange to see a Christian take this route, but some apparently do. It's borderline deism, or oddly Christian deism.

But I think this article focuses on the more extremes where people become so deluded that they fear anything not of their religious views. And sadly many of them get that from their religious doctrines. The bible does teach intolerance, hate, the killing of non-believers ect.. It teaches them to be Narcissistic to the point of dangerous elitism with little to no empathy for the plight of others that do not believe in their brand of religious belief.

So I agree with the articles premises that religious beliefs can lead to, in many cases, a mental illness. NPD being just one of them:
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder.[1]

The narcissist is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.[2] Narcissistic personality disorder is closely linked to self-centeredness.
To which includes:
Narcissism is the personality trait of egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.
We can see this being taught here:
* In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

* Mark 16:15-16 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be condemned to hell.

* Matthew 10:35-37 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

* Luke 14:26 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

* Matthew 10:34 34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
And to elaborate a bit more, we can take the first example and put it into further context:
* In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.�
the context is about worshiping him. Hence not serving or caring about Jesus = eternal punishment.. the purpose of these stories. They are to make you feel guilty for not serving Jesus, and if you don't, you will be cast into eternal damnation. This is essentially about separating believers and non-believers. Hence, sheep from goats! Serve the king like a good slave and you will magically go to heaven to serve him forever. Btw, the above is where the term Sheep "blind following", derives from. It's also why you see Goats as symbols for Satan, or wickedness. Anyone not of the religious faith are wicked evil Goats in need to slaughter.. The bible is very subliminal btw:
* Leviticus 16:15 - 16 "He shall then slaughter the goat for the sin offering for the people and take its blood behind the curtain and do with it as he did with the bull's blood: He shall sprinkle it on the atonement cover and in front of it. 16 In this way he will make atonement for the Most Holy Place because of the uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been. He is to do the same for the Tent of Meeting, which is among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

* Jeremiah 51:40 "I will bring them down like lambs to the slaughter, like rams and goats to be sacrificed.
And if you are curious about why religion is a multibillion dollar industry, you can see how brainwashing people and controlling them in such religious cults fleece them of their money:
You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? (Matthew 23:17)
Of course a King is going to bless the obedient servants (slaves).:
Luke 12:45-48: "The lord [owner] of that servant [slave] will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
But let's really get to the point of what the bible is about in terms of becoming GOD's servants, or Jesus's disciples / servants..:
Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."
The bible is largely about teaching dangerously blind obedience to power and their lords [governors]. It's a theme repeated, and repeated, and repeated throughout the entire bible. But that's nothing compared to what else is in the bible:
Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Lev: 24:16

16And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
Deut: 13:13 -18

13that certain(R)worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, 14then you shall inquire and make search and ask(S) diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, 15you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction,[c] all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. 16You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and(T) burn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It shall be a(U) heap forever. It shall not be built again. 17(V) None of the devoted things shall stick to your hand,(W) that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger and show you mercy and have compassion on you and multiply you,(X) as he swore to your fathers, 18if you obey the voice of the LORD your God,(Y) keeping all his commandments that I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the LORD your God.
* And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.
Just making these up is psychologically disturbing:
Exodus 31:15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
And yes, God doesn't mind killing children:
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Yes, THOSE EVIL CHILDREN! .. Oh, it's repeated here for you to!:
Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
But let's do better and evaluate this:
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
Reference the above to this:
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
And it seems you think we should give parents the right to kill their children. Kinda like honor killings in Afghanistan! Oh, that's covered here too! :
If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
So if parents are sorry for having their children, the should be able to just murder them! Why not, your GOD thinks this behavior is ok:
Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, "I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing--all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them."
The point here is that this stuff is in the bible, and some people do take it seriously and become potentially fundamental and dangerous. And in reference to genocide, we can see how such dangerous doctrines might influence others.. We can take the classic Hitler argument that Christians often like to suggest was an Atheist:
Hitler:

* "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

* 24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health from within only on the principle: the common interest before self-interest.

* Just as the Jew could once incite the mob of Jerusalem against Christ, so today he must succeed in inciting folk who have been duped into madness to attack those who, God's truth! seek to deal with this people in utter honesty and sincerity.

-Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 28 July 1922
The render on to Cesar thing comes in two flavors. One is referenced to fellow believers only, or "brothers". The other is reference to treating the your enemies nicely in hopes they will join you and convert. It's more of a tactic than an actual good will gesture. Hence, non-believing ect will still land you in the category of deserving damnation ect ect. One example of the above is that you shouldn't allow non-christians in your home:
3 Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son, will be with us in truth and love.

4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.


This is about suggesting anyone that doesn't believe as being "wicked", and shouldn't be allowed in your home. This is about teaching Christians to love each other and hate those whom are not Christians. Non-Christians are deceivers, and wicked! It's tricky use of religious dogma where Christian's profess the bible to preach love when it really doesn't. We can also see this repeated here:
* (Deu 7:26) And you shall not bring an abomination into your house, lest you be a cursed thing like it. You shall utterly hate it, and you shall utterly despise it. For it is a cursed thing.

* (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with their hearts and souls; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
And I didn't even go into the GOD Hates Fags thing.. That's in the bible too. :/

TheJackelantern
Under Probation
Posts: 772
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:48 am

Post #28

Post by TheJackelantern »

I also wrote a good article on religious brainwashing here and how it's done here:
Brainwashing Doctrines: Immorality's Movie

It's pretty scary when you see this in America:


Some serious mental illness going on there.. And I wonder how many closet Atheists were among those whom killed themselves when growing up in such socially dogmatic and oppressive religious fundamentalism.. There are many places in the world where Atheists are treated like they are worthless... So it's not a surprise to see Atheists have a higher suicide rate. And here is a nice little fact of reality:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.ph ... erman_26_5

Abstract 1:

A comparison of highly irreligious countries with highly religious countries, however, reveals a very different state of affairs. In reality, the most secular countries-those with the highest proportion of atheists and agnostics-are among the most stable, peaceful, free, wealthy, and healthy societies. And the most religious nations-wherein worship of God is in abundance-are among the most unstable, violent, oppressive, poor, and destitute.
Abstract 2:
The twenty-five nations characterized by organic atheism with the highest proportion of nonbelievers are listed in Table 1. When looking at standard measures of societal health, we find that they fare remarkably well; highly religious nations fare rather poorly. The 2004 United Nations' Human Development Report, which ranks 177 countries on a "Human Development Index," measures such indicators of societal health as life expectancy, adult literacy, per-capita income, educational attainment, and so on. According to this report, the five top nations were Norway, Sweden, Australia, Canada, and the Netherlands. All had notably high degrees of organic atheism. Furthermore, of the top twenty-five nations, all but Ireland and the United States were top-ranking nonbelieving nations with some of the highest percentages of organic atheism on earth. Conversely, the bottom fifty countries of the "Human Development Index" lacked statistically significant levels of organic atheism.

Rule of thumb.. Secular societies to the best... And we know religious people think their religions are the essence / source origin of morality as if they own it. But they definitely are no such thing.. And I also wrote an article on that subject here:

Understanding Moral Evolution: System of behavioral Adaptation

So teach each other tolerance, and you might just see a better world![/url]

spayne

Post #29

Post by spayne »

TheJackelantern wrote:I also wrote a good article on religious brainwashing here and how it's done here:
Brainwashing Doctrines: Immorality's Movie

It's pretty scary when you see this in America:


Some serious mental illness going on there.. And I wonder how many closet Atheists were among those whom killed themselves when growing up in such socially dogmatic and oppressive religious fundamentalism.. There are many places in the world where Atheists are treated like they are worthless... So it's not a surprise to see Atheists have a higher suicide rate. And here is a nice little fact of reality:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.ph ... erman_26_5

Abstract 1:

A comparison of highly irreligious countries with highly religious countries, however, reveals a very different state of affairs. In reality, the most secular countries-those with the highest proportion of atheists and agnostics-are among the most stable, peaceful, free, wealthy, and healthy societies. And the most religious nations-wherein worship of God is in abundance-are among the most unstable, violent, oppressive, poor, and destitute.
Abstract 2:
The twenty-five nations characterized by organic atheism with the highest proportion of nonbelievers are listed in Table 1. When looking at standard measures of societal health, we find that they fare remarkably well; highly religious nations fare rather poorly. The 2004 United Nations' Human Development Report, which ranks 177 countries on a "Human Development Index," measures such indicators of societal health as life expectancy, adult literacy, per-capita income, educational attainment, and so on. According to this report, the five top nations were Norway, Sweden, Australia, Canada, and the Netherlands. All had notably high degrees of organic atheism. Furthermore, of the top twenty-five nations, all but Ireland and the United States were top-ranking nonbelieving nations with some of the highest percentages of organic atheism on earth. Conversely, the bottom fifty countries of the "Human Development Index" lacked statistically significant levels of organic atheism.

Rule of thumb.. Secular societies to the best... And we know religious people think their religions are the essence / source origin of morality as if they own it. But they definitely are no such thing.. And I also wrote an article on that subject here:

Understanding Moral Evolution: System of behavioral Adaptation

So teach each other tolerance, and you might just see a better world![/url]
And what is meant exactly by the term "tolerance?" One thousand people polled...resulting in...one thousand different definitions. How is anyone, religious or not, supposed to extract any meaning out of such an overused, abstract, and morally ambiguous term? Perhaps you don't see the glaring irony in glossing over the moral standard that is developed in the Bible (as expressed in so many passages you don't mention, not to mention the ones you misrepresent or take out of context), and then tell everyone that we just need to "tolerant."

David 2.0

Hi...

Post #30

Post by David 2.0 »

Why do atheists have a significantly higher rate of suicide?
:-k

Being an atheist is lonely work.
:(
Personally...
I don't mean to offend any one when I say, "I am doubtful of the God concept", but at my last job it seemed to be a problem.
Not that I brought it up.

It can be a lonely world when you are a minority.

Look there.

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