Obedience to God?

[Paradigm]

Question for debate: If Jesus says to you "Friend, do what you came to do" should you obey?

[bjs]

Context would be important.

For instance, this line was spoken to Judas when he came to betray Jesus. An expanded version of this sentence might be “Judas, I know that you have come here to betray me, which is extremely painful to me. You are committed to doing this and won’t change your mind. Don’t drag out this show and prolong the pain of what is going to be a very painful night. Go ahead let the guards know who to arrest so that I can get going on this horrible night and get it over with.�

Of course Jesus doesn’t need to actually say all that. He says it much more succinctly and, I think, more powerfully by saying, “Friend, do what you came to do.�

So my answer to your question is, “Yes.� If you are going to betray someone then just do it. It would be better not to betray someone at all, but if you are going to do that then don’t drag it out. The pain of betrayal is bad enough without twisting the knife even more.

[Paradigm]

If Judas was dragging his heels, it can only be surmised that he was having second thoughts about what he was about to do.

When you are faced with doubt about something you are about to do, do you believe that God encourages you to make the right choice, or the wrong one?

[Paradigm]

Also, the context you provided was somewhat small in scope. Let me provide a somewhat larger context:

If Jesus has a plan for the salvation of the entire human race, and this plan hinges upon you betraying him into the hands of His enemies so that He can fulfill a messianic prophecy that is thousands of years old, and you are about to ruin God's plan for the salvation of the human race because you are having second thoughts about your part in it, and then Jesus says to you, "Friend, do what you came to do." What is the appropriate course of action?

[bjs]

If Judas was dragging his heels, it can only be surmised that he was having second thoughts about what he was about to do.

When you are faced with doubt about something you are about to do, do you believe that God encourages you to make the right choice, or the wrong one?

At a certain point it becomes too late for second thoughts. When Judas showed up at Gethsemane with the soldiers then his choice was already made. At that point having second thoughts about betraying Jesus would be like having second thoughts about shooting someone when the bullet is already in the air.

Also, the context you provided was somewhat small in scope. Let me provide a somewhat larger context:

If Jesus has a plan for the salvation of the entire human race, and this plan hinges upon you betraying him into the hands of His enemies so that He can fulfill a messianic prophecy that is thousands of years old, and you are about to ruin God's plan for the salvation of the human race because you are having second thoughts about your part in it, and then Jesus says to you, "Friend, do what you came to do." What is the appropriate course of action?

This seems to get us into a different issue. Could Judas chosen not to betray Jesus? An interesting topic, but large enough that it probably deserves its own thread.

[Paradigm]

If Judas was dragging his heels, it can only be surmised that he was having second thoughts about what he was about to do.

When you are faced with doubt about something you are about to do, do you believe that God encourages you to make the right choice, or the wrong one?

At a certain point it becomes too late for second thoughts. When Judas showed up at Gethsemane with the soldiers then his choice was already made. At that point having second thoughts about betraying Jesus would be like having second thoughts about shooting someone when the bullet is already in the air.

So then Judas made the right choice by continuing with the betrayal once he has brought the soldiers to Gethsemane? It wouldn't have been a better choice for him to refuse to identify Jesus for them?

Why would Jesus say "Friend, do what you came to do" if Judas had already done what he came to do?

Also, the context you provided was somewhat small in scope. Let me provide a somewhat larger context:

If Jesus has a plan for the salvation of the entire human race, and this plan hinges upon you betraying him into the hands of His enemies so that He can fulfill a messianic prophecy that is thousands of years old, and you are about to ruin God's plan for the salvation of the human race because you are having second thoughts about your part in it, and then Jesus says to you, "Friend, do what you came to do." What is the appropriate course of action?

This seems to get us into a different issue. Could Judas chosen not to betray Jesus? An interesting topic, but large enough that it probably deserves its own thread.

Perhaps, but the issue of whether Judas made the right choice or not is still relevant. After Jesus said "Friend, do what you came to do" would it have been a better choice for Judas not to do what he came to do?

[therolanpen]

If Judas was dragging his heels, it can only be surmised that he was having second thoughts about what he was about to do.

When you are faced with doubt about something you are about to do, do you believe that God encourages you to make the right choice, or the wrong one?

At a certain point it becomes too late for second thoughts. When Judas showed up at Gethsemane with the soldiers then his choice was already made. At that point having second thoughts about betraying Jesus would be like having second thoughts about shooting someone when the bullet is already in the air.

So then Judas made the right choice by continuing with the betrayal once he has brought the soldiers to Gethsemane? It wouldn't have been a better choice for him to refuse to identify Jesus for them?

Why would Jesus say "Friend, do what you came to do" if Judas had already done what he came to do?

Also, the context you provided was somewhat small in scope. Let me provide a somewhat larger context:

If Jesus has a plan for the salvation of the entire human race, and this plan hinges upon you betraying him into the hands of His enemies so that He can fulfill a messianic prophecy that is thousands of years old, and you are about to ruin God's plan for the salvation of the human race because you are having second thoughts about your part in it, and then Jesus says to you, "Friend, do what you came to do." What is the appropriate course of action?

This seems to get us into a different issue. Could Judas chosen not to betray Jesus? An interesting topic, but large enough that it probably deserves its own thread.

Perhaps, but the issue of whether Judas made the right choice or not is still relevant. After Jesus said "Friend, do what you came to do" would it have been a better choice for Judas not to do what he came to do?

Of course it would have better for Judas not to have betrayed the Christ. When is betrayal and murder a good choice? Never. These are evil deeds, done by one who hated the Christ and his message. Of course, Jesus knew going into his ministry that the Jews would hate and kill him. They had killed many prophets before him. He also understood that the Jews would be so proud of his execution that they would publish his story the world over.

It is important to understand that Judas kept the law of the Moshe-lims faithfully, which law obligated him, under threat of death, to destroy false prophets. And to the Moshe-lims, Jesus was a false prophet indeed, who deserved to die. Under the law of Moshe, killing Christ was perfectly justified and was righteousness.

So if you are a Moshe-lim, Jesus is your sacrifice, justified by law. But if you love him, he is the words of everlasting life.

[Pat2]

="Paradigm"]Question for debate: If Jesus says to you "Friend, do what you came to do" should you obey?

Yes, no and maybe?

Yes if Christ commands that we so some specifc and worthy thing

No in the case of Judas

And maybe does not apply

God Bless,
Pat

[Paradigm]

If Judas was dragging his heels, it can only be surmised that he was having second thoughts about what he was about to do.

When you are faced with doubt about something you are about to do, do you believe that God encourages you to make the right choice, or the wrong one?

At a certain point it becomes too late for second thoughts. When Judas showed up at Gethsemane with the soldiers then his choice was already made. At that point having second thoughts about betraying Jesus would be like having second thoughts about shooting someone when the bullet is already in the air.

So then Judas made the right choice by continuing with the betrayal once he has brought the soldiers to Gethsemane? It wouldn't have been a better choice for him to refuse to identify Jesus for them?

Why would Jesus say "Friend, do what you came to do" if Judas had already done what he came to do?

Also, the context you provided was somewhat small in scope. Let me provide a somewhat larger context:

If Jesus has a plan for the salvation of the entire human race, and this plan hinges upon you betraying him into the hands of His enemies so that He can fulfill a messianic prophecy that is thousands of years old, and you are about to ruin God's plan for the salvation of the human race because you are having second thoughts about your part in it, and then Jesus says to you, "Friend, do what you came to do." What is the appropriate course of action?

This seems to get us into a different issue. Could Judas chosen not to betray Jesus? An interesting topic, but large enough that it probably deserves its own thread.

Perhaps, but the issue of whether Judas made the right choice or not is still relevant. After Jesus said "Friend, do what you came to do" would it have been a better choice for Judas not to do what he came to do?

Of course it would have better for Judas not to have betrayed the Christ. When is betrayal and murder a good choice? Never. These are evil deeds, done by one who hated the Christ and his message. Of course, Jesus knew going into his ministry that the Jews would hate and kill him. They had killed many prophets before him. He also understood that the Jews would be so proud of his execution that they would publish his story the world over.

It is important to understand that Judas kept the law of the Moshe-lims faithfully, which law obligated him, under threat of death, to destroy false prophets. And to the Moshe-lims, Jesus was a false prophet indeed, who deserved to die. Under the law of Moshe, killing Christ was perfectly justified and was righteousness.

So if you are a Moshe-lim, Jesus is your sacrifice, justified by law. But if you love him, he is the words of everlasting life.

So you think Jesus gave Judas bad advice when He told him to "do what he came to do?"

You think that instead of listening to Jesus' words, Judas should have ignored His words and instead done the exact opposite?

[Paradigm]

="Paradigm"]Question for debate: If Jesus says to you "Friend, do what you came to do" should you obey?

Yes, no and maybe?

Yes if Christ commands that we so some specifc and worthy thing

No in the case of Judas

And maybe does not apply

God Bless,
Pat

Ah, so you think that when God commands us to do something, we should second guess it and judge for ourselves whether it is a "worthy" thing to do before deciding whether to obey or not?