|Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:04 pm I am seriously questioning my atheism|
|Disclaimer: This post may be out of place on the Christianity and Apologetics forum (even though it does have some relation to Christianity), if it is, I apologize and ask that it be moved to a more appropriate place on the forum. However, I do intend this thread to be a discussion, if not a debate, so I felt this was the best place for it.
As many of you know, I am an ex-evangelical Christian and a current atheist. By "atheist," I mean I lack belief in god(s) of any kind, although I do not assert that there are definitely no gods. Since departing from Christianity, everything has made so much more sense: an eternal Universe (defined as the totality of natural existence) explained existence, evolution explained the diversity of life on earth, the absence of god(s) explained the problems of evil, inconsistent revelation, and so on.
However, there is one thing that I have been unable to account for under atheism: morality. Atheists almost invariably state that moral values and duties are not objective facts, but are simply subjective statements of preference and have no ontological value. That is, of course, until we are presented with cases of true evil, such as the Holocaust, the atrocities of Pol Pot, or the horrible psychopathic serial killings of individuals like Jeffery Dahmer. Then we as atheists tacitly appeal to objective moral values and duties, saying that individuals who commit should be severely punished (even executed) for doing "evil," saying that they "knew right from wrong." But if right and wrong are simply statements of subjective opinion, then how can we say that others knew "right from wrong" and are accountable for their actions? If relativism is true, they simply had differing opinions from the majority of human beings. However, it seems obvious to me (and to the vast majority of others, theist and atheist alike) that this is absurd -- the monsters who carried out the aforementioned acts really, objectively did evil.
Given this, the only reasonable conclusion is that moral facts and imperatives exist.
However, atheism appears to offer no framework for moral facts. Because of this, a few weeks ago, I started up a discussion on Wielenbergian moral realism, which states that objective moral values are simply "brute facts" that exist without any explanation. However, others rightly pointed out that the existence of "brute facts" is ontologically problematic and that the best explanation (on atheism) is that morality is simply subjective. Additionally, even if atheistic moral facts existed, the Humeian problem of deriving an "ought" from an "is" would preclude them from acting as moral imperatives; commands which human beings are obligated to follow.
In light of these airtight logical objections to atheistic moral realism, I was forced to abandon my position on moral facts and tentatively adopt moral relativism. However, relativism still seems problematic. After all, if morality is subjective, no one person can accuse another of failing to recognize the difference between "right and wrong," however, it is obvious to me (and, I would suspect, to other atheists as well) that right or wrong really objectively (not subjectively) exist.
The only rational conclusion I can seem to come up with is that there is a (are) transcendent moral lawgiver(s) who both grounds moral facts and issues binding moral commands on all humanity; i.e., God(s). This echoes evangelical Christian philosopher William Lane Craig's moral argument, which syllogism reads:
Premises 1 and 2 seem bulletproof -- (1) was demonstrated earlier in this post, leaving (2) as the only premise to attack. However, (2) seems to be as obvious as a hand in front of my face. The conclusion necessarily follows from (1) and (2), so is there any rational reason for me to reject the conclusion of the argument?
Remember, I am no believer of any kind. I am a staunch, educated, informed atheist, and I am well aware of the philosophical arguments against God(s), such as the problem of evil, the dysteleological argument, the problem of omniscience, etc. I'm also well aware of the plentiful empirical evidence against the existence of God(s), for instance, evolution, mind-body physicalism, etc. These are the reasons I reconverted from Christianity in the first place. However, I don't see way around this problem other than to accept either that our apparently obvious sense of moral facts is somehow mistaken, or that (a) theistic being(s) exist.
Debate question: Are my issues with atheism legitimate? Can atheism provide a coherent moral framework other than nihilism, relativism, or subjectivism? Do these problems really present evidence for theism? Is William Lane Craig right? Is this a real problem for atheism, or are my (our) emotions simply overriding my (our) rationality?
Feel free to present evidence for or against atheism, Christianity, or any religious or nonreligious perspective in this thread.
Post 471: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:11 am
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Then you understand why I don't need to defend atheism? It is because atheism doesn't claim to provide justification for beliefs like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, justice etc. Attacking atheism is as much a waste of time as attacking a generic theism.
If you understand why having things in common in Christianity and humanism doesn't mean that Christianity got them from humanism, why were you suggesting atheists got their values from Christianity? The golden rule for example, predates Jesus.
It is necessary because without disproving the Christian God for example, a Christian can (and will) say the source of humanism is God, re: Roman 2 14-15, as law written in our hearts.
Post 472: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:08 am
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If you have reason and logic and conscience and morals and compassion and love and empathy and altruism inside you, why would you need justification from a deity to act on these? Why aren't they sufficient for you to act on? I would say to Stalin that what he did goes against reason and logic and morals and compassion and love and empathy and altruism and is therefore immoral of course. Just like I would tell God that drowning practically every person on the planet goes against reason and logic and morals and compassion and love and empathy and altruism and is therefore immoral. You are the one who thinks that whether genocide is immoral or not just depends on who's doing it.
Post 473: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:42 pm
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Because some values can't be accounted for by atheism. Which you admitted: "It is because atheism doesn't claim to provide justification for beliefs like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, justice etc".Since Christianity couldn't have borrowed the values that atheism doesn't have, if atheists profess these values then it must be the other way around.
It is necessary because without disproving the Christian God for example, a Christian can (and will) say the source of humanism is God, re: Roman 2 14-15, as law written in our hearts.[/quote] Well could you list the ones that come from Humanism in your opinion and why they didn't come from the religion of Abraham.
Post 474: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:16 pm
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What would you then say if Stalin said all his top evolutionary scholars had discovered a antibiotic shortage and recommended that the elimination of 15 million people would guaranty the survival of the stronger more productive ones still alive.
No one with the possible exception of Christ has lived an exemplerary moral life.
One of the moral giants often cited was Ghandi (whom I admire) but through his efforts at getting rid of the British because they charged too much rent on land, even though they supplied stability, huge markets, technological advances, and efficient governance. Ghandis revolts wound up plunging the country into civil war, genocide, starvation, and anarchy for a period of time. Our morality whatever the source is never enough to make us rightous people. The bible's Abraham a good man by all accounts slept with his maid in defience of God and as a direct result plunged the middle east into perpetual war that is still going on. Our best is still insuffecient when viewed in totality. A man I admire greatly (general Lee) and was noted for his morality is personally responsible for getting tens of thousands killed as a direct result of his temper. It takes more than some superficial golden rule morality to actually be rightous. Even with we refer to as the good there is plenty of evil. I am not sure if those last few sentences apply or not but they are interesting.
Are you supporting atheistic evolution, humanistic evolution (whatever that is), or theistic evolution. That may clear some of your views up for me.
Post 475: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:16 pm
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Post 476: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:30 pm
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For one thing this is irrelevant for this discussion. What do you use as your standard to judge God? How could any subjective moral framework be suffecient to judge God? Since every one has different moral standards to some degree how can you make a case that yours is correct without an objective standard? Give me an example of God's atrocities and I will respond.
What are the units that define where a creature is on an evolutionary scale. What does it's position have to due with morals, and at what specific point do creatures develope the capacity for morals. Many inoffensive things became harmful when nature was distorted by the fall of man.
Well not all but the major problem associated with Islams wars with Israel and the west would never have existed if Abraham had been faithful. He fathered a child out of wedlock (Ismael) in defiance of God's instructions. This child became the father of the arabian people. Abraham did have his legitamite son later (Isaac the father of the jews) and his first son held an enmity against this son and their ancesters have been fighting ever since. As far as the illegetimate son goes God said:New Living Translation (©2007)
This son of yours will be a wild man, as untamed as a wild donkey! He will raise his fist against everyone, and everyone will be against him. Yes, he will live in open hostility against all his relatives." Now can you imagine a more accurate prophesy considering Islams penchant to fight everybody especially Israel.
Post 477: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:19 pm
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Post 478: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:22 pm
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What is it that you measure relating to morals and how do you quantify whatever this is? Is there a moral organ?
Christianities impact on modern society
Have Christians positively effected our society? It's been claimed that committed Christians have laid a foundation of compassion and caring in Western societies. Is this true?
Here are some examples along with links for further reading.
• The Church is the largest single provider of healthcare and education in the world, working especially in some of the poorest countries where there is no other care available. (Catholic church that is. Adding Evangelical church schools/hospitals means there is no close second provider.)
• The Church pioneered modern Social Work. Eg: Jane Addams
Jane Addams was the first American woman to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Also co-founded the first settlement house in the US. The Settlement Movement sought to bridge the gap between rich and poor in society: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_house
• London Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (London SPCC)
After campaigning from SPCC and the wider Church, the UK’s first ever law to protect children from abuse and neglect came into being. See Lord Shaftsbury , Rev B. Waugh
• Save the Children. This large relief agency was founded by Eglantyne Jebb who also campaigned for social reform in this area. The Declaration of the Rights of the Child was adopted by the League of Nations. She also pioneered the Child Sponsorship program.
• Barnardo’s homes – world’s largest orphanage system. Founded by Thomas John Barnardo.
• Churches were the first orphanages
In the High Middle Ages, abandoning unwanted children finally eclipsed infanticide. Unwanted children were left at the door of church or abbey, and the clergy was assumed to take care of their upbringing. This practice also saw the birth of the first orphanages.
• From Roman times, advocacy against infanticide and polygamy etc.
Early Church Fathers advocated against polygamy, abortion, infanticide, child abuse...
• Strengthening of marriage from Roman times
Church teaching heavily influenced the legal concept of marriage. During the Gregorian Reform, the Church developed and codified a view of marriage as a sacrament.
• Protection of young people in our society: English Factory reform bill and anti-poor movement,- Richard Oastler
• Campaign for the protection of children from abuse. Passionate Christian Josephine Butler campaigned for the age of consent to be set and was a key figure in other social reforms.
• Care for the elderly and disabled in society. Christians birthed Almshouse institutions as early as the 10th century. Conditions in these Almshouses were not always good and there was a social stigma attached to them, however, Almshouses did their best to serve the local community with the little resources they had and cared for those who were abandoned by society. They were the forerunner of nursing homes and hospitals. They sought to provide care for those who were no longer able to work. Almshouses are still active today with some 2,600 in the UK alone.
• Impact on language, literature and culture
The Authorized Version of the Bible has been called "the most influential version of the most influential book in the world, in what is now its most influential language", "the most important book in English religion and culture", and "the most celebrated book in the English-speaking world".
• Impact on civil liberties
The Magna Carta is considered one of the most important documents in human history; vitally important as an early foundation of law in Western society. It is considered the founding document of English liberties and hence American liberties. The influence of Magna Carta can be seen in the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Lord Denning described it as "the greatest constitutional document of all times – the foundation of the freedom of the individual against the arbitrary authority of the despot". The man responsible for drafting it's content was Stephen Langton (Archbishop of Canterbury). Various "Barons" were also implicated in the construction of the Magna Carta, but Stephen Langton is believed to be the central architect.
• Impact on civil liberties
Rev.Martin Luther King Jr., a man of great courage and faith who was at the centre of the civil rights movement. He continued despite attempts on his life including a fire bomb attack on his family home. In 1964, King became the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize for his work to end racial segregation and racial discrimination through civil disobedience and other nonviolent means. His father and grandfather were both ordained ministers. The U.S. have declared the 3rd Monday in January to be an annual public holiday in his honour. Written on his memorial are the concluding words from his "I have a dream speech": ""Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"
• Prison reform. The Quakers pioneered prison reform during the Victorian age. Suggested basic human rights for prisoners and teaching prisoners a trade etc.
Today, Prison Fellowship International (amongst other Christian ministries) works around the globe in prisons to help reform and rehabilitate prisoners:
• The 7th Earl of Shaftsbury was inspired by his faith to do many things.
He became a Tory MP (Member of Parliament) in 1826, and almost immediately became a leader of the movement for factory reform. He was responsible for promoting a plethora of reform causes, including the Factory Acts of 1847 and 1853, the Ten Hour Bill, as well as the Mines and Collieries Act 1842 and the Lunacy Act 1845. One of his chief interests was the welfare of children, and he was chairman of the Ragged Schools Union and a keen supporter of Florence Nightingale. He was also involved as patron and president in the field of model dwellings companies, which sought to improve the housing of working classes in England.
• Braille worldwide system used by blind and visually impaired people.
Louis Braille was an innovator. Lying on his deathbed he said, “God was pleased to hold before my eyes the dazzling splendors of eternal hope…” His system is now used on a worldwide basis.
• Pioneering free or low cost health care for the terminally ill in our society dying of cancer.
Macmillan nurses. Douglas Macmillan.
Rose Hawthorne Lathrop created the first homes/treatment centers for cancer patients in the US. St. Rose's Free Home for Incurable Cancer
• Promotion of International fair trade for the poorest societies in the world. Tearfund.
Trade justice movement, Make Poverty History. Richard Adams OBE.
Habitat for Humanity, one of the largest charities in the US which internationally provides housing for the poor. Founder Millard Fuller
• Salvation Army, caring for poor and downtrodden in many different countries. Founder William Booth
• Leprosy Missions. Dr. Paul Wilson Brand was a pioneer in developing tendon transfer techniques for use in the hands of those with leprosy. He spent 19 years serving in India. During his career, Dr. Brand received many awards and honors. He was awarded the Hunterian professorship of the Royal College of Surgeons in 1952 etc…
Leprosy Mission International has over 130 years experience working with people that are considered “untouchable” in some societies. Founded by Wellesley Bailey in the 1860s.
• Sight to the blind. Dr. Victor C Rambo was a passionate Christian who could have made a lot of money as a doctor in the US. Instead he lived in India where he “worked from dawn ‘til dusk” operating on cataracts where little or no other help was available. Literally thousands of patients were helped through his ministry who would have otherwise been left seriously visually impaired or gone blind.
• Ministry to young people in our society – YMCA founded in 1844. Nobel Peace Prize winners. John Mott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mott
Founded by George Williams:
• World Vision, 1950 – child sponsorship, one of largest relief and development agencies in the US. Founded by Dr. Robert Pierce
• Samaritans Purse. Humanitarian organisation reaching those suffering in war, poverty, famine, disease and disaster. Franklin Graham
• Education UK. An overwhelming number of early education establishments were Christian before the State took over.
•In the UK, faith schools (Christian and Jewish) dominate the league table of performance. Two thirds of the 50 best performing institutions were Church of England, Roman Catholic or Jewish. This comes despite the fact that faith schools account for only one in every three schools.
• Lech Wałęsa. Devout Christian and charismatic president of Poland 1990-95. World renowned human rights activist. Winner of numerous international awards including the Nobel Peace prize 1983 and awarded over 30 honorary doctorates from universities worldwide. Co-founder of Solidarity, the Soviet bloc's first independent trade union.
• David Bussau AM (born November 10, 1940) is a pioneer of microfinance, having founded Opportunity International Australia and co-founded the Opportunity International Network. He has been hailed for his innovative approach to solving world poverty by challenging the conventional wealth distribution model of development, addressing the root causes of poverty through responsible wealth creation. According to the World Bank, micro-enterprise has proven to be one of the most effective and sustainable ways to solve poverty.
• Rev. Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet, LL.D., (December 10, 1787 – September 10, 1851) was a renowned American pioneer in the education of the deaf. He co-founded and raised funds for the first institution for the education of the deaf in North America. For many years he was principal of that institution. His son Edward Miner Gallaudet (1837–1917) founded in 1864 the first college for the deaf which in 1986 became Gallaudet University.
• Charles Loring Brace (June 19, 1826 in Litchfield, Connecticut - August 11, 1890) was a contributing philanthropist in the field of social reform. He is considered a father of the modern foster care movement and was most renowned for starting the Orphan Train movement of the mid-19th century, and for founding The Children's Aid Society.
• Despite being crippled himself, John Pounds (1766-1839) was the man most responsible for the creation of the concept of “Ragged Schools” (charitable schools dedicated to the free education of destitute children). Working in the poorest districts, teachers initially utilised stables, lofts, and railway arches for their classes. The success of the Ragged Schools definitively demonstrated that there was a demand for education among the poor.
• Robert Raikes ("the Younger") (14 September 1736 – 5 April 1811) was an English philanthropist and Anglican layman, noted for his promotion of Sunday schools. Pre-dating state schooling and by 1831 schooling 1,250,000 children, they are seen as the first schools of the English state school system.
The movement started with a school for boys in the slums.
• Friedrich Wilhelm August Fröbel (or Froebel) (April 21, 1782 – June 21, 1852) laid the foundation for modern education based on the recognition that children have unique needs and capabilities. He developed the concept of the “kindergarten”, and also coined the word now used in German and English.
• Supporting mothers and families worldwide - The Mothers' Union (founded 1876)
Mothers’ Union is an international Christian charity that seeks to support families worldwide. It main aim is to support marriage and family life, especially through times of adversity.
Particularly concerned with the plight of women in the world, its projects include literacy and development, parenting, micro finance and campaigning against violence against women and the trafficking of women. The Mothers' Union is part of Make Poverty History and the Jubilee Debt Coalition.
• Pioneering education for women. Mary Lyon 1797-1849.
She valued socioeconomic diversity and endeavored to make the seminary affordable for students of modest means.
• Royal Society for the prevention of cruelty to Animals founded by Christians (William Wilberforce). It is the oldest and largest animal welfare organisation in the world and is one of the largest charities in the UK.
• One of the largest international literacy organisations in the world, SIL International, brings literacy to thousands of the world's poorest language communities.
• Frank Laubach. Committed Christian and pioneer of world literacy. Known as the “Apostle to the Illiterates” the programs he developed have been used to teach about 60 million people to read their own language. He was deeply concerned about poverty, injustice and illiteracy, and considered them barriers to peace in the world.
• Food for the Poor. Since 1982, Food for the Poor has distributed more than $8.2 billion worth of food, medicine, housing materials,water and other aid to the poor of the Caribbean and Latin America
• Meeting the needs of children in poverty-stricken areas. Mission Of Mercy
George Mueller - orphanages and education
Mueller took no salary for himself. By 1870 his orphanages had multiplied and they were caring for two thousand children. He was well-known for providing an education to the children under his care, to the point where he was accused by some of “raising the poor above their natural station in life.”
Pioneering International orphan care. Amy Wilson Carmichael
• Christian Aid. Christian Aid is one of the biggest international development agencies in the world. It was formed and is still supported by the major Christian churches in the British Isles. Its headquarters are in London. It works with local partner organizations in over 70 countries around the world to help the world's poorest communities. Christian Aid states it works where the need is greatest, regardless of religion, nationality or race.
• Education US. Out of the initial 110 universities started in the US, 100 had Christian foundations.
• Temperance Movement to address the abuse of alcohol in society.
• Pioneering surgery on infants. Dr. C. Everett Koop. Koop performed groundbreaking surgical procedures on conjoined twins, invented techniques which today are commonly used for infant surgery, and saved the lives of countless children who otherwise might have been allowed to die.
• Michael Faraday. Contributed extensively to the fields of Electromagnetism and Electrochemistry.
Known as “one of the most influential scientists in history. Historians of science refer to him as the best experimentalist in the history of science.” Discovered Benzene, invented early form of Bunsen Burner.
• Alcoholics Anonymous helps 2 million people. It's emergence was inspired by the Christian "Oxford Group".
Co-founder Bill claimed a dramatic spiritual experience of God.
Co-founder Dr. Bob Smith said that AA's basic ideas came from their study of the Bible; the Steps, in essence meant "love and service."
Narcotics Anonymous is also based on the above mentioned 12-step program.
Pioneers of professional nursing and caring. The first official nurses’ training program, the Nightingale School for Nurses, opened in 1860. The mission of the school was to train nurses to work in hospitals, work with the poor, and to teach. Florence Nightingale "the mother of modern nursing". She said that God had called her just before her 17th birthday. Although later in life it is said that she wrote a document questioning the divinity of Christ, so it it unsure if she held to an orthodox Christian theology at that time.
• Amnesty International. Justice and liberty for oppressed people all over the world.
Started in 1961 by two Christians Peter Beneson and Eric Baker.
Nobel Peace prize 1977 for campaign against torture.
• (UK) Recent research showed that 81% of evangelical Christians do some kind of voluntary work at least once a month. This compares with a much lower figure of 26% for the population at large, obtained in citizenship surveys by the Department for Communities and Local Government, and is consistent with comparable differences identified by researchers in North America.
Similar results were confirmed through a five-year study by the political scientists David Campbell and Robert Putman.
• Oxfam was one of the pioneers of modern famine relief. It works to address famine and injustice on a worldwide scale. Founded by Quaker Christians in Oxford in 1942.
The good works still continue. Here is a sampling of more recently established charities:
Kindernothilfe (KNH) is a charity organization and was founded in 1959 by a group of Christians in Duisburg, Germany, in order to help needy children in India. Over time, it has become one of the largest Christian organizations in Europe for children's aid.
Today it supports more than 580,000 children and young people in 28 countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America and Eastern Europe. KNH aims to give needy children in the poorest countries of the world a chance to a good start in life.
• Caritas Internationalis is a confederate of 164 Roman Catholic relief, development and social service organisations operating in over 200 countries and territories worldwide. Collectively and individually their mission is to work to build a better world, especially for the poor and oppressed.
• Children of the Nations (COTN) was founded in 1995 and exists to partner with nationals in poverty-stricken areas of the world to provide care for orphaned and destitute children. Operating in Malawi, Sierra Leone, the Dominican Republic, and Uganda, COTN helps nearly 7,000 children on a daily basis. COTN's stated goal is to "Raise children who transform nations."
• Christian Foundation for Children and Aging (CFCA) is a nonprofit sponsorship organization headquartered in Kansas City, Kansas. CFCA was founded by lay Catholic workers acting on the Gospel call to serve the poor. Its Hope for a Family sponsorship program provides basic necessities like food, education, clothing and access to medical care to children and elderly in some of the world's poorest communities. Today, CFCA sponsors support more than 300,000 children, youth and aging persons in 22 countries
• CORD (Christian Outreach Relief and Development) - New life after conflict CORD is a humanitarian organisation working with displaced people and communities affected by violent conflicts around the world. Established in 1967 and rooted in Christian faith. Located in the UK.
• Christians Against Poverty (CAP) is a Christian charitable company in the United Kingdom founded in Bradford, West Yorkshire by John Kirkby in 1996. It is a national organisation specialising in debt counselling for individuals in financial difficulty, including those in need ofbankruptcy or insolvency.
• Compassion International is a Christian child sponsorship organization dedicated to the long-term development of children living in poverty around the world. Compassion International, headquartered in Colorado Springs, functions in 26 countries such as Bolivia, Colombia, Mexico, Haiti, Kenya, and India. They also currently help more than 1,200,000 children.
• Cross International Alliance (Cross) is an inter-denominational Christian relief and development organization based in South Florida that provides food, shelter, education, medical care and emergency aid to the poor in over 30 countries across the globe. Cross was recently recognized for its work in Haiti, receiving a $4.8 million grant from the U.S. government for a new program seeking to care for children and families impacted by AIDSin the country. From its headquarters in Pompano Beach, Cross raises millions of dollars through donations each year to fund development programs that target the “poorest of the poor” in developing countries, and it ships millions of dollars worth of humanitarian goods to high-need areas such as Kenya and Nicaragua.
• Hope UK is a national Christian charity located at 25(f) Copperfield Street, London, England which educates children and young people about drug and alcohol abuse. It began as the Band of Hope in 1847 in Leeds, to teach children the importance and principles of sobriety andteetotalism. In 1855, a national organisation was formed amidst an explosion of Band of Hope work. Meetings were held in churches throughout the UK and included Christian teaching.
• Medair is an international non-governmental organization NGO of humanitarian aid with a stated mission, "to seek out and serve the most vulnerable people affected by crises." Medair’s core competencies are emergency relief and rehabilitation. Medair lists its values as: hope, compassion, dignity, accountability, integrity, and faith.
• Medical Teams International (formerly Northwest Medical Teams) is a non-profit humanitarian aid and global health organization. Medical Teams International has mobilized 2,000 teams since 1979, shipped $1.3 billion in medical aid since 1986, provided care to 4.5 million people in 53 nations in 2008, sent more than 2,600 volunteers serving annually in its various programs all over the world.
• Mercy Ministries is an international, Evangelical, charismatic, Christian, charitable organization that offers a long-term residential program for young women aged 13–28 who struggle with various "life controlling" issues. In 2008, the top issues that Mercy Ministries reported themselves to be dealing with were: eating disorders (69%), self-harm (60%), sexual abuse (55%), emotional/verbal abuse (55%), depression (55%), chemical dependency (49%), physical abuse (37%) and pregnancy (6%)
• The Message Trust is an award-winning Christian charity working to improve the lives of young people in Greater Manchester, UK and beyond through the Eden Network.
Working in schools, in local communities and in prisons, The Message is in contact with around 100,000 young people across Greater Manchester each year. The Message was founded by well-known speaker, author and current chief executive, Andy Hawthorne OBE.
• Prospects is a Christian charity in the United Kingdom whose aim is to support learning disabled adults, and to enable them to reach their full potential. It was founded in the mid-1970s by David Potter, a Christian minister, who was drawn to the needs of these adults because he and his wife had a daughter with Down's syndrome.
• Tiny Hands International (THI) is a Christian nonprofit organization dedicated to helping orphaned and abandoned children and fighting sex trafficking in South Asia. Tiny Hands operates through national non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in Nepal, Bangladesh, and India.
• VisionTrust is an international, non-denominational non-profit organization that assists orphanedand impoverished children around the world. The organization works alongside Christian Nationals to help children gain education, nutritional support, medical assistance and spiritual discipleship. VisionTrust works in schools, orphanages, learning centers and medical clinics. They offer child sponsorships, short-term mission trips, and assist churches with educational materials to promote participation in this effort
• World Concern is a Christian humanitarian organization that operates relief and development programs in 13 countries, and funds partnership programs in nine other countries. The organization’s mission statement is, “World Concern provides life, opportunity and hope to suffering people around the world, through disaster response and development programs. Motivated by our love of Christ, we bring hope and reconciliation to those we serve, so they may in turn share with others.”
Post 479: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:38 pm
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Post 480: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:30 pm
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It's insufficient because peoples morals vary considerably and there is no way to establish which one is correct without an objective standard.
How can use a list of benevolent things Christians have done who will tell you they did it because of their faith as evidence for Godless morality.