historia wrote:Flail wrote:
Atheists who argue that Jesus never existed are merely making the point that the entire virgin birth/miracles/resurrection dogma is obviously the stuff of hyperbole, myth and legend.
If that is ultimately the point, why not then
just make that point? Why go further and say that Jesus didn't exist at all?
From a purely tactical point of view, doesn't overstating the case in this way -- by adopting a radical theory near universally rejected by scholars -- actually
weaken the overall argument?
A lot of atheists making the assertion that the biblical Jesus of Nazareth never existed, are former Ministers, Pastors, Priests etc. Dan Barker is one such example and I mention him only because he is probably better known than other examples I could give. Rather than it be merely a radical theory as you state, don't you think it could well be a rational and logical conclusion they reached when studying and researching information pertaining to Judeo-christianity? Whether people like to believe it or not, removing ones-self from a religion that has consumed a good part of your life, is NOT easy peasy, in fact it is one of the most difficult things psychologically, one can do. Sometimes, even when looking into information to cement ones "faith", it can cause ones faith to come crashing down around them. At that point, one can choose to keep the blinkers on, or acknowledge the new information for exactly what it is....and that what it is.. is not necessarily what you wanted. If one is honest with themselves though, the blinkers come off.
The fact could be that these atheists have actually researched perhaps more than the scholars you refer to. Perhaps too many of these scholars have chosen to keep their blinkers on despite the information to the contrary as to "jesus of nazareth's" existence. Ignorance IS supposedly "BLISS" after all.
I don't believe the jesus of nazareth character existed, not only due to the "supernatural" elements as mentioned by Flail, but also from some long hard research into the matter; 15+ years of it, so it wasn't fleeting for me not to believe in "jesus" or his actual existence any more. The most difficult aspect of it all was to take the blinkers off. It was far easier to "choose" to believe, until my own conscience got the better of me and at that point, I could not continue living with what was, a "comfy" lie. A little ironic don't you think that the words in John 8:32 ...were KEY to my personal exodus from christianity. "seek ye the truth and it shall set you free"... too funny...lol... it was good to know that those sentences are in the DSS 4Q163 too.... - dated to circa 150BCE.
It's obvious that before the time of Jesus of Nazareth's purported life, there were MANY a messianic style figure running around the traps. Much of the NT - the claimed words of wisdom of the character were done PRIOR and a lot better. The "Sermon on the Mount" is one such example. A high percentage of information in the "Gospels" are nothing more than dodgy copy from many of the 927 Dead Sea Scrolls, and unfortunately for whomever wrote the "Gospels", they obviously didn't take into account future events; that this info would be dug up 1500 + years later, for people to SEE where this "character" and the supposedly unique things he is claimed to have said, have an entirely different beginnings and they had nothing to do with some god/man hybrid figure supposedly born around 2012 odd years ago.
It reminds me of some in the Arab world who, in their zeal to oppose Israel, go on to deny the Holocaust. Does that bolster their position, or merely make them look silly?
It's not just "some of the arab world", there are a lot of people who do deny the Holocaust. Unfortunately many a westerner christian ALSO deny it, purely because they identify with Hitler having been a Christian and also the fact that many a concentration camp was supported by The Vatican. I don't deny the Holocaust but I do reckon like with most atrocities such as the holocaust, genocides....wartime "collateral damage", even natural disasters, the numbers, depending on who's doing the reporting, get more than a tad embellished....whether to increase OR decrease the body count.
I don't see how it can remind you of the jesus not existing situation. At least with holocaust, genocide, "collateral damage" and natural disaster, there is at least ONE corpse to show SOMETHING actually happened.
Catalyst.