Is it coherent to favor the Death Penalty but not abortion?

[Flail]

Question for debate:

Is it coherent (logical and consistent) to be supportive of the Death Penalty for some criminals, while at the same time being against all manner of abortion?

[Dantalion]

Question for debate:

Is it coherent (logical and consistent) to be supportive of the Death Penalty for some criminals, while at the same time being against all manner of abortion?

While I do not want the death penalty, the mindset of killing a sick and twisted murderer for their belief in the death penalty (of their victims) and not wanting to kill a person yet to be born and yet to have commited any actions worthy of execution (abortion), is a very coherent thought process.

Abortion would make far more sense to a healthy society, if all those involved in creating the of the unborn child, IF he or she must be put to death . . . were elimianted from society as well via death by the D & C method. Afterall, if an unborn child is guilty of a crime demanding his or her execution . . . obvioulsy so do his or her parents.

BUT, I don't desire the death penalty for anyone.

yeah, except that, a sick and twisted individual's decisions for taking a life yet not taking a stand against abortion have nothing to do with the OP.
Neither does assuming said person would be able to form a very cohesive thought process.
And you also make the assertion that abortion is 'killing a person'.

If your body parts can be identified as your body parts by your DNA . . . abortion is 100% killing of a person. Even at conception, when (and where) all the person's DNA is present. Just because a person has not been given a name yet, makes no difference to reality. How many "people" are buried unnamed in graves all over the world?

As Seargent Friday says: Just that facts . . .

I repeat: you make the assertion that abortion is killing a person.
what qualifies as 'personhood' is a legal issue.
Fertilised eggs are not given personhood, therefore, abortion is not killing a person.
If you want to debate whether abortion SHOULD be seen as the killing of a person, feel free to post in the existing topics or to start a new one.

[Moses Yoder]

Question for debate:

Is it coherent (logical and consistent) to be supportive of the Death Penalty for some criminals, while at the same time being against all manner of abortion?

Many theists base their opposition to abortion by affirming their avid belief that all life is sacred and must be sanctified. Some of them support the death penalty. How is government killing of the criminally convicted consistent with the idea that all life is sacred? Should we not leave such extreme punishment of criminals to 'God', and the abortion issue to the mother? Is it consistent for government to kill criminals yet prevent mothers from terminating pregnancies?

According to Romans 13, the government is a tool used by God.

13 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

The Old Testament Law stated "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." That is why I favor capital punishment for murderers who kill somone intentionally with a clear mind. For psycopaths that are mentally unbalanced I favor life in prison. The government then is a tool used as a preventative measure to keep it's citizens safe. Basically if you take a life, you lose the right to keep your own and the government has a right to take it. It has everything to do with the fact you took a sacred life.

Abortion on the other hand in my opinion is done to a completely innocent life. If you could prove some horrendous crime done by the embryo then I would be in favor of killing it based on God's purpose for the government and the law.

So far as the mention of shooting abortion doctors, I totally agree that is a tragedy. It makes me very angry when that happens, both for the loss his or her people experience and also for the fact it sets our cause back considerably whenever it happens.

[Goat]

The Old Testament Law stated "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." That is why I favor capital punishment for murderers who kill somone intentionally with a clear mind. For psycopaths that are mentally unbalanced I favor life in prison. The government then is a tool used as a preventative measure to keep it's citizens safe. Basically if you take a life, you lose the right to keep your own and the government has a right to take it. It has everything to do with the fact you took a sacred life.

Now there is an interpretation of the Jewish scriptures , while common, is very very incorrect. The way it is interpreted by the Rabbi's is a warning against excessive retribution.. .. a more accurate translation should be 'No MORE than an eye for an eye.... and no MORE than a tooth for a tooth'. There also, in oral law and tradition, monetary values given for the value of an eye, and a value of a tooth , so people don't go around blind and toothless.

So, while it does not restrict the use of the death penalty, the way it should be applied does not promote it either.

[Rkrause]

Question for debate:

Is it coherent (logical and consistent) to be supportive of the Death Penalty for some criminals, while at the same time being against all manner of abortion?

Thats why I consider myself "anti-abortion" and not "pro-life". The adult being executed made a decision and must live or die with the consqences of their actions.

[JCviggen]

Question for debate:

Is it coherent (logical and consistent) to be supportive of the Death Penalty for some criminals, while at the same time being against all manner of abortion?

Thats why I consider myself "anti-abortion" and not "pro-life". The adult being executed made a decision and must live or die with the consqences of their actions.

I agree but the inescapable consequence of the death penalty is that occasionally (the exact frequency cannot be determined but it is a very real issue) people are put to death for crimes they did not in fact commit.
Killing innocents has to be a price you want to pay before supporting the death penalty.

Killing an innocent adult vs killing an innocent fetus isn't all that different, even if the intentions are different.

[Haven]

I'm against both abortion and the death penalty (although I'm pro-choice in certain circumstances), but I can see how one could support the DP and not abortion. Such a person could say that they support protecting innocent life, but have no problem killing convicted murderers as murder forfeits one's right to live. I disagree with this line of reasoning, but I can see how one could coherently defend it.

As for me? I'll stick with the KJV 1611 version of the 6th commandment: "Thou shalt not kill."

[1213]

Question for debate:

Is it coherent (logical and consistent) to be supportive of the Death Penalty for some criminals, while at the same time being against all manner of abortion?

Yes

[connermt]

Question for debate:

Is it coherent (logical and consistent) to be supportive of the Death Penalty for some criminals, while at the same time being against all manner of abortion?

Being anti-abortion and pro-death penalty isn't very logical, but then again, not much in the bible is.
People use the bible/religion (not just christianity to be fair) to hide their hate, ignorance and disdain (among other things) behind. It's sad, but par for the course with religion in its many forms.

[Moses Yoder]

I'm against both abortion and the death penalty (although I'm pro-choice in certain circumstances), but I can see how one could support the DP and not abortion. Such a person could say that they support protecting innocent life, but have no problem killing convicted murderers as murder forfeits one's right to live. I disagree with this line of reasoning, but I can see how one could coherently defend it.

As for me? I'll stick with the KJV 1611 version of the 6th commandment: "Thou shalt not kill."

If you support that commandment then logically you would have to support punishment for those people who disobey it. What punishment should be meted out to those who break the law and kill someone? I heard in the news this morning of a man here who got out of prison and 2 months later shot someone. Intentionally, in cold blood, in full grip of his mind with an illegally possessed firearm. What should be done to him?

[Flail]

I'm against both abortion and the death penalty (although I'm pro-choice in certain circumstances), but I can see how one could support the DP and not abortion. Such a person could say that they support protecting innocent life, but have no problem killing convicted murderers as murder forfeits one's right to live. I disagree with this line of reasoning, but I can see how one could coherently defend it.

As for me? I'll stick with the KJV 1611 version of the 6th commandment: "Thou shalt not kill."

I understand your reasoning. But do you contend that 'Thou shalt not kill' referred, at the time it was promulgated, to a fetus forming in another person's womb? I see a big difference between say, my killing your 10 year old child vs your wife deciding, for whatever reason, to terminate her own pregnancy. Do you see a difference there?

Personally, I am adamantly against the death penalty and adamantly pro-choice.