Allah, Gabriel & Muhammad are one?

[Burninglight]

Why do Muslims attack the Christian trinity? They have there own in many ways. There are the three daughters of Allah also known as "the flying cranes whose intercession is hoped for." This is a verse that Uthman abrogated from the Quran. It was a hard thing for Uthman to leave in the Quran after Muhammad's death. Allah had to cancel out Muhammad's Satanic verse. No prophet ever made a mistake like this before Muhammad's time. How could he get away with it? These videos make an argument that the unholy trinity of Islam is Allah, Gabriel and Muhammad. It states they are one and the same. If this is so, do Muslims attack the Christianity trinity only to turn a blind eye to their own unholy trinity?

[Peace]

Hey there Burninglight!

I respect your curiosity on such matters pertaining to Islam and Christianity. I am afraid to say that not only are these claims completely out of line in Islamic theology, but the videos that you have referenced have completely misunderstood Islamic teachings and traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

I take it that due to the absurdity of these statements no one has bothered to try to show you what Islamic theology teaches and what the Qur'an says of the trinity. I am afraid to ask why. Instead of relying on a Youtube video that has just as many dislikes as likes, maybe a simple Google search of 'Islam' can help alot.

If there are some concepts, after studying the basic message of Islam and its concepts, and understanding Qur'anic versus as well as traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), that you wish to debate from a common ground of understanding, I would love to discuss anything further. As for the claim above I suggest further reading on very basic Islamic theology.

Have a great day!

[Burninglight]

Hey there Burninglight!

I respect your curiosity on such matters pertaining to Islam and Christianity. I am afraid to say that not only are these claims completely out of line in Islamic theology, but the videos that you have referenced have completely misunderstood Islamic teachings and traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

I take it that due to the absurdity of these statements no one has bothered to try to show you what Islamic theology teaches and what the Qur'an says of the trinity. I am afraid to ask why. Instead of relying on a Youtube video that has just as many dislikes as likes, maybe a simple Google search of 'Islam' can help alot.

If there are some concepts, after studying the basic message of Islam and its concepts, and understanding Qur'anic versus as well as traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), that you wish to debate from a common ground of understanding, I would love to discuss anything further. As for the claim above I suggest further reading on very basic Islamic theology.

Have a great day!

Hi Peace:

Thank your for your comment and PBUY. I can understand you fully. I know that islam doesn't consider Muhammad, Gabriel and Allah one. If you notice there is a question mark there after the title of this thread. But, I do ask the question for a reason.

When I look at Allah's worldview of the Christian trinity, I can see that his view is completely "out of line" in Christian theology. Hence, I have come to the conclusion that Islam is based on false assumptions and deception that is a result of Muhammad's erroneous understanding or a demon impersonating Allah and/ or Gabriel who is not all knowing!

I, therefore, consider that to be a major discrepancy with the Quran! No Muslim has been able to gainsay this as of yet!

[Peace]

Hey again Burninglight!

I respect the patient tone of your question and genuine nature to seek knowledge.

When I look at Allah's worldview of the Christian trinity

Before I can go any further, I would need to know what you mean by this? Do you mean what God (Allah) says in the Qur'an? If so can you show me some passages where the confusion is at?

I have come to the conclusion that Islam is based on false assumptions and deception that is a result of Muhammad's erroneous understanding

That is a big conclusion! I would love to hear your reasoning and evidence.

or a demon impersonating Allah and/ or Gabriel who is not all knowing!

Huh??!! You do know that when we say Allah we mean God right? Millions of Arab Christians read an Arabic bible that contains the name Allah meaning God, so how could a demon impersonate God?

We also believe Gabriel is an angel, also known as the Holy Spirit in Islam. He is a completely separate entity from God and the Prophets (peace be upon them all).

Whether God is all knowing or not, all Muslims can do is meditate on the accuracy of the Qur'an when it comes to natural events that occur in our very universe, miraculous nature of the language used when describing such events, the unique preservation of the text that is unmatched in history, and the future predictions made in the text before the occurrence of events in history, in a very specific nature.

This is what makes the Muslim point to the divine and reflect on God's true attributes.

, therefore, consider that to be a major discrepancy with the Quran! No Muslim has been able to gainsay this as of yet!

I cannot wait for your evidence, and maybe after we clear this up I can find out your stance on religion? and what your personal beliefs are. I look forward to our discussion Burninglight! and PBUY too!

[Burninglight]

Hey again Burninglight!

I respect the patient tone of your question and genuine nature to seek knowledge.

When I look at Allah's worldview of the Christian trinity

Before I can go any further, I would need to know what you mean by this? Do you mean what God (Allah) says in the Qur'an? If so can you show me some passages where the confusion is at?

I have come to the conclusion that Islam is based on false assumptions and deception that is a result of Muhammad's erroneous understanding

That is a big conclusion! I would love to hear your reasoning and evidence.

or a demon impersonating Allah and/ or Gabriel who is not all knowing!

Huh??!! You do know that when we say Allah we mean God right? Millions of Arab Christians read an Arabic bible that contains the name Allah meaning God, so how could a demon impersonate God?

We also believe Gabriel is an angel, also known as the Holy Spirit in Islam. He is a completely separate entity from God and the Prophets (peace be upon them all).

Whether God is all knowing or not, all Muslims can do is meditate on the accuracy of the Qur'an when it comes to natural events that occur in our very universe, miraculous nature of the language used when describing such events, the unique preservation of the text that is unmatched in history, and the future predictions made in the text before the occurrence of events in history, in a very specific nature.

This is what makes the Muslim point to the divine and reflect on God's true attributes.

, therefore, consider that to be a major discrepancy with the Quran! No Muslim has been able to gainsay this as of yet!

I cannot wait for your evidence, and maybe after we clear this up I can find out your stance on religion? and what your personal beliefs are. I look forward to our discussion Burninglight! and PBUY too!

Hi Peace:

Here is the proof you seek.

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [Qur'an 5:116]

This verse shows who the three are according to Allah's understanding. Allah did say "say not three," but he doesn't specifically name the three consecutively; therefore, we can make an intelligent inference that Allah is saying Christians see Allah as one of the three, and the way Allah questions Jesus, we can see Jesus and Mary are the other two with Allah that make up the Chirsitan trinity according to Allah's understanding of what Christians believe. Allah never once mentioned the Holy Spirit; Muhammad never mentioned the Holy Spirit; Gabriel never mentioned the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Christian's trinity; hence you are back at square one with a discrepancy!

Now, what really makes this ignorance inexcusable is the fact that it was already known before Muhammad was born; the three person of the trinity consisted of The father, son and Holy Spirit. Muhammad should have done a little better research before telling Christians what they should or shouldn't do, or should I have said Allah should have done more research.

WADR, this is a major discerpancy. I say MAJOR!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Peace]

Hey Burninglight!

I now understand your point.

This verse shows who the three are according to Allah's understanding. Allah did say "say not three," but he doesn't specifically name the three consecutively; therefore, we can make an intelligent inference that Allah is saying Christians see Allah as one of the three, and the way Allah questions Jesus, we can see Jesus and Mary are the other two with Allah that make up the Chirsitan trinity according to Allah's understanding of what Christians believe.

Yes over here God is saying that people take God to be one in three, and then makes it clear that he means Mary and Jesus (peace be upon them). Now, I will make an important point before moving on and this will help you understand. When the Qur'an was revealed, it was revealed in stages, not all at once. Therefore when a revelation (verse or verses) was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) it was in accordance with his location and time. So that the people can understand its meaning fully. When it comes to us, we must study his time and location to fully understand a verse.

When we study what Edward Gibbon says in his book "The History of The Decline & Fall Of The Roman Empire":

The Christians of the seventh century had insensibly relapsed into a semblance of paganism: their public and private vows were addressed to the relics and images that disgraced the temples of the East: the throne of the Almighty was darkened by the clouds of martyrs, and saints, and angels, the objects of popular veneration; and the Collyridian heretics, who flourished in the fruitful soil of Arabia, invested the Virgin Mary with the name and honours of a goddess.

So it existed once before that people believed Mary was one in three of the God-head.

George Sale in his translation of "the Koran" writes:

But, to be more particular as to the nation we are now writing of, Arabia was of old famous for heresies; which might be in some measure attributed to the liberty and independency of the tribes. Some of the Christians of that nation believed the soul died with the body, and was to be raised again with it at the last day: these Origen is said to have convinced. Among the Arabs it was that the heresies of Ebion, Beryllus, and the Nazareans, and also that of the Collyridians, were broached, or at least propagated; the latter introduced the Virgin Mary for God, or worshipped her as such offering her a sort of twisted cake called collyris, whence the sect had its name.

This notion of the divinity of the Virgin Mary was also believed by some at the Council of Nice, who said there were two gods besides the Father viz. Christ and the virgin Mary, and were thence named Mariamites. Others imagined her to be exempt from humanity, and deified; which goes but little beyond the popish superstition in calling her the complement of the Trinity, as if it were imperfect without her. This foolish imagination is justly condemned in the Koran as idolatrous, and gave a handle to Mohammed to attack the Trinity itself

As you can see this notion existed. Now, If I were God and I wanted to ask Jesus (peace be upon him) about what I see practiced on Earth, would'nt I ask about those beliefs that are completely out of whack? and ask if he is responsible? I would look to the extremes to judge how far man has diverged, and thus even the Christians of our time find this belief astray.

God does not say this is what all Christians believe, He is just pointing to the extreme and saying to Jesus (peace be upon him) is this your responsibility?

We have other versus when it comes to the trinity that we know today, maybe this verse coincides with the major accepted belief at that time:

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. [Surah Al-Nisa, Ayah 171]

Here it is clear, no matter what the belief is, or who the individual elements are in the 'trinity', that God is one, not three in one.

I hope this has helped!

[Yusef]

I've told "Burlingfight" why God Says in Qor'an that He Is The Best Deceiver!
1000 times and again with some very logical and wise reasonings:
>> !!A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION!! <<
But I think his own heart's eye has been blinded by God cause of HIS OWN ARROGANCE!
Because God never Would Likes To Blind anyone...
Look at this Aphorism of Jesus(a.s) in the thread of Aphorisms

[Burninglight]

I've told "Burlingfight" why God Says in Qor'an that He Is The Best Deceiver!
1000 times and again with some very logical and wise reasonings:
>> !!A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION!! <<
But I think his own heart's eye has been blinded by God cause of HIS OWN ARROGANCE!
Because God never Would Likes To Blind anyone...
Look at this Aphorism of Jesus(a.s) in the thread of Aphorisms

You think I have been blinded by God cause of my arrogance. Do you have a verse for that from the Qu'ran? I have a verse from the Bible: "He that refuses the love of truth God will send him a strong deception, that he might believe a lie. You not only have a deception, but you have the god of all deception for he is "the best of deceivers" he is the most proud one. I see Islam's god (Allah moon god) in you! You may take that as a compliment, but I mean has spoken truth!

[A Troubled Man]

I think his own heart's eye has been blinded by God cause of HIS OWN ARROGANCE!

You think I have been blinded by God cause of my arrogance. i KNOW YOU 'VE BEEN BLINDED BY ARROGANCE AND DECEPTION.

:yapyap:

[Peace]

@Yusef: Whether you have done so before or not, it is not right to say someone has been blinded by God. We need to respect 'Burninglights' curiosity and persistence to learn about Islam, no matter how long it takes.

@Burninglight: I also don't think it is right for you to do the same, especially when involving God's name (may I remind you again, that in the Arabic new testament Allah is used for God)

We are all better than this, and as true believers in God, we should love humanity as well. We must care for each others guidance with genuine compassion and not hatred fueled with no understanding.

Can we please return to topic and continue the debate in a civilized manner, myself included.