Who created God?

[Illyricum]

I seen this question many times so I decided to start thread on it. Some people have asked the question "If their is a God, who created him and how has he always existed?" Anyone?

[Bro Dave]

I would like to elaborate on what Bro Dave was saying.

God exists outside of time. He is not bound by it, so naturally, He could have always existed. Since the universe IS bound by time, it is logical to say that the universe could have had a beginning, whereas God did not.

Hi Amadaus,
I wanted to expand on your good point a bit as well as BroDave's.

LOL! Colter, you realy know how to "go where angels fear to tread"!!! You've picked probably one of the most difficult concepts, and posted it COLD here, where the poor readers probably are all sitting with their mouths agape! For those whose curiosity has been stirred, I would like to offer a link to Bill Sadlers series where he actually makes all this understandable.

http://www.ubfellowship.org/sadler_tapes_index.htm

You go Bro Colter! Although at times, I am not sure even I can follow!

Bro Dave

[ST88]

Much of the confusion of all orders of beings, high and low, in their efforts to discover the Father-Infinite, is inherent in their limitations of comprehension. The absolute primacy of the Universal Father is not apparent on subinfinite levels; therefore is it probable that only the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit truly know the Father as an infinity; to all other personalities such a concept represents the exercise of faith.

I find it curious that the necessary lack of knowledge we may have about such infinite creatures as makes up the God we have been exposed to is used as a reasoning for His existence and purpose. This is a self-defeating philosophy. If it is not possible for "subinfinite" beings to comprehend this God, then what are we to make of the people who write about what He wants? It would be just as incomprehensible to them as it would be to us. If logic fails, if the language we use to describe these creatures is inadequate for the task, then what are we to make of the attempts to know Him?

I would argue that necessary unknowability is merely a clever way of avoiding the issue. I gather that the statement goes something like this: We can never know the purpose, but we know that there is a purpose, and that it's a good one. This is unaccaptable in terms of a philosophy. It encourages corruption from those who claim to be closer to this God than we. It encourages people to come up with their own spin on things. Our brains try to make sense of the most disparate elements in our environment, and sometimes we barely realize the leaps in logic we are taken on. It is much easier to take advantage of such thinking, get people to do things for the benefit of a force that may or may not have anything to do with their beliefs, for their faith that it does.

[Colter]

Much of the confusion of all orders of beings, high and low, in their efforts to discover the Father-Infinite, is inherent in their limitations of comprehension. The absolute primacy of the Universal Father is not apparent on subinfinite levels; therefore is it probable that only the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit truly know the Father as an infinity; to all other personalities such a concept represents the exercise of faith.

I find it curious that the necessary lack of knowledge we may have about such infinite creatures as makes up the God we have been exposed to is used as a reasoning for His existence and purpose. This is a self-defeating philosophy. If it is not possible for "subinfinite" beings to comprehend this God, then what are we to make of the people who write about what He wants? It would be just as incomprehensible to them as it would be to us. If logic fails, if the language we use to describe these creatures is inadequate for the task, then what are we to make of the attempts to know Him?

I would argue that necessary unknowability is merely a clever way of avoiding the issue. I gather that the statement goes something like this: We can never know the purpose, but we know that there is a purpose, and that it's a good one. This is unaccaptable in terms of a philosophy. It encourages corruption from those who claim to be closer to this God than we. It encourages people to come up with their own spin on things. Our brains try to make sense of the most disparate elements in our environment, and sometimes we barely realize the leaps in logic we are taken on. It is much easier to take advantage of such thinking, get people to do things for the benefit of a force that may or may not have anything to do with their beliefs, for their faith that it does.

Good post, great points and an even better Question. I will try in my imperfect way to answer them.

The meaning of life to me," God made us what we are that we might become like he is, should we choose to embark on that experiential adventure to personally seek the will of God and once discerning that will, doing it." Anyone looking for God inside or outside of any religion will find him, for if we are looking we have already found him, we have become faith identified with the first source and center, the eternal God.

God is personal to each one of us, he has sent a fragment of himself to live in us and guide us, ( if we would let him) throughout our universe careers. But God is "living" is present and works with us personally in unique and dynamic ways. We are all at different places in our spiritual lives. Jesus taught unity not uniformity. He did not teach us to all think alike. I can ask for what Gods will is for me in how to best serve my brother, but it's best not to give advise unless it's asked for. Religions tend to spend a lot of time trying to get everyone to think the same way, insinuating they have the only "right" way to God.

CLIP:

The brotherhood of men is founded on the fatherhood of God. The family of God is derived from the love of God--God is love. God the Father divinely loves his children, all of them.The kingdom of heaven, the divine government, is founded on the fact of divine sovereignty--God is spirit. Since God is spirit, this kingdom is spiritual.

The kingdom of heaven is neither material nor merely intellectual; it is a spiritual relationship between God and man.If different religions recognize the spirit sovereignty of God the Father, then will all such religions remain at peace. Only when one religion assumes that it is in some way superior to all others, and that it possesses exclusive authority over other religions, will such a religion presume to be intolerant of other religions or dare to persecute other religious believers.

Religious peace--brotherhood--can never exist unless all religions are willing to completely divest themselves of all ecclesiastical authority and fully surrender all concept of spiritual sovereignty. God alone is spirit sovereign.You cannot have equality among religions (religious liberty) without having religious wars unless all religions consent to the transfer of all religious sovereignty to some superhuman level, to God himself.

The kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men will create religious unity (not necessarily uniformity) because any and all religious groups composed of such religious believers will be free from all notions of ecclesiastical authority--religious sovereignty.God is spirit, and God gives a fragment of his spirit self to dwell in the heart of man. Spiritually, all men are equal. The kingdom of heaven is free from castes, classes, social levels, and economic groups. You are all brethren.

But the moment you lose sight of the spirit sovereignty of God the Father, some one religion will begin to assert its superiority over other religions; and then, instead of peace on earth and good will among men, there will start dissensions, recriminations, even religious wars, at least wars among religionists.

Freewill beings who regard themselves as equals, unless they mutually acknowledge themselves as subject to some supersovereignty, some authority over and above themselves, sooner or later are tempted to try out their ability to gain power and authority over other persons and groups. The concept of equality never brings peace except in the mutual recognition of some overcontrolling influence of supersovereignty.



"How can God, if he is infinitely good, permit us to suffer the sorrows of evil; after all, who creates evil?" It was still believed by many in those days that God creates both good and evil, but Jesus never taught such error. In answering this question, Jesus said: "My brother, God is love; therefore he must be good, and his goodness is so great and real that it cannot contain the small and unreal things of evil. God is so positively good that there is absolutely no place in him for negative evil. Evil is the immature choosing and the unthinking misstep of those who are resistant to goodness, rejectful of beauty, and disloyal to truth. Evil is only the misadaptation of immaturity or the disruptive and distorting influence of ignorance. Evil is the inevitable darkness which follows upon the heels of the unwise rejection of light. Evil is that which is dark and untrue, and which, when consciously embraced and willfully endorsed, becomes sin

The will of God is the way of God, partnership with the choice of God in the face of any potential alternative. To do the will of God, therefore, is the progressive experience of becoming more and more like God, and God is the source and destiny of all that is good and beautiful and true. The will of man is the way of man, the sum and substance of that which the mortal chooses to be and do. Will is the deliberate choice of a self-conscious being which leads to decision-conduct based on intelligent reflection.

[illuminatus]

I seen this question many times so I decided to start thread on it. Some people have asked the question "If their is a God, who created him and how has he always existed?" Anyone?

It has been said that we created God. It's a perfectly logical and rational explanation when you think about it. Especially so if you consider the human psyche.

[Bro Dave]

I seen this question many times so I decided to start thread on it. Some people have asked the question "If their is a God, who created him and how has he always existed?" Anyone?

It has been said that we created God. It's a perfectly logical and rational explanation when you think about it. Especially so if you consider the human psyche.

You are absolutely right! And a darned poor job we do of it. But that's not the real problem. Finite creatures will never truely comprehend God in His infinity. We just keep improving the shabby model we had before with our latest, highest understanding, as reflected in our cultures. Truly, the "God" we kill each other for, is but an imperfect shadow of The First Source and Center. Jesus came to show us The Father, in every way we are able to understand Him. But God's role as Father, is only a part of His totality. It is, however for us, as much as we are capable at this time of understanding.

Bro Dave

[Tigerlilly]

i agree, no one created God, and people cant seem to figure it out but let me ask you this if you belive in evolution who created that cell?

Life didn't start with a cell. It started with a first molecule, which assembled and progressed to different stages.

[Gangstawombatninja]

This is what I believe: the universe has been imploding and exploding for all time and will continue to do so forever so that there was never a point in time in which matter did not exist. Furthermore I think there are and infinite number of Big Bangs in all the cosmos, an infinite number of universes which have always existed and alway will exist.

As to God. Well, the only thing I believe to be absolute is the natural order of things; if something happens, something made it happen, cause and effect. Science is the perception of the natural order of things. It is, by nature, biased but it isn't at all blind. So if God existed we would, or eventually would, be able to perceive It with proper intrumentation. Now, if you were to say God is the unifying energy of the universe then, yes, I would agree that God has always existed. This is the primal God. As for the personal, if you were to say that the energy that is within all things and connects all things has a human psyche with human emotions--well, I could only agree with you if you said this anthropomorphisation is enitirely metaphorically and used to inspire hope and awe within a person. So, when we say "God", let's designate whether we're referring to brahman or YHWH.

[justanotherperson]

To this question how the universe was created and who created God (in whatever religious since you want to look at him) I think we have to look at what we know and work our way back.

As a Biology student and one that is educated on genetics and cell theory, I find it nearly impossible to believe in evolution. It is much easier to have faith in a God creator than to believe in macro-evolution. MUCH EASIER!!! I just cannot see in any scientific way that we have evolved from something. Now, who created us, there is the question? Some form of a supreme being is the answer; and did he create the world/universe? I would suppose that he would have to, because living on a planet that randomly forms from the big bang or something else is HIGHLY improbable and one that supports life for humans, impossible. Humans need water and food and nutrients. Evolution, macro-evolution, cannot feasibly work.

Now, who created the God who created the universe for us to live in? Whoever created the world and the concept of time (earth revolving and spinning) simultaneously, does not abide by the time that we know of, as has been previously said. For instance we arbitrarily say that God created earth 4 billion years ago (just any number will do). But that is our time, not His. That time to him may be 5 years or maybe 5 seconds, who knows? We, as said before, do not exist in the same place as God does. He is the highest thing we can think of, however we cannot argue for something that we have never experienced like the non-existence of time. We have always had it and it restrains us. We cannot think of the maker of God or the origination of God because it is beyond our reasoning.

[Bro Dave]

Justanotherperson, you may enjoy reading a bit from this link;

http://www.urantiabook.org/newbook/toc_p1.html#god

Bro Dave

[Gangstawombatninja]

As a Biology student and one that is educated on genetics and cell theory, I find it nearly impossible to believe in evolution. It is much easier to have faith in a God creator than to believe in macro-evolution. MUCH EASIER!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, you're the Biologyy student and apparently a grown up. But I thought micro (small) evolution was that we came from bacteria (I think some ocean water got trapped in some bedrock and formed amonia which I think is NH4 and it chemically bonded to more complicated structures until it became--well at this website talkorigins said the simplest self-replicators yet discovered are only 6 dna nucleotides long--a t c and g. http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB010_1.html )

Ok, I thought micro we came from bacteria and macro evolution is that creatures can adapt and change from one species to another. Well, um, this is a proven fact--not micro evolution that we came from bacteria but macro evolution is. See:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB910.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Go to the first because the second is so long. Well, just thought I'd point out that must have meant micro evolution--macro evolution is a proven fact--like how originally I think the tulip was one wild flower over in Asia and the Turks brought it back centuries ago and now it like an uber common flower. That's because it adapted to its new environment and change from one species into thousands--macro evolution. Macro evolution doesn't directly conflict with Biblical Creationism that says the universe was created 6 thousand years ago and that a global flood occured 44 hundred years ago (as according to the geneologies of the Bible).

Just wanted to point out that u must have meant micro.