A church spokeswoman lie

Current issues and things in the news

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
The Ex-Mormon
Apprentice
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Berne

A church spokeswoman lie

Post #1

Post by The Ex-Mormon »

I found this at the Salt Lake Tribune :


Just Dew It: BYU students pushing for caffeinated colas
Soda » Mormon church statement prompts campaign to dump campus ban.

By Peggy Fletcher Stack

| The Salt Lake Tribune
First Published Sep 11 2012 05:06 pm • Last Updated Sep 12 2012 07:12 am

Caffeine-craving Brigham Young University students are pushing the LDS Church-owned school to change its stance on cola drinks.
The move was triggered by Aug. 30 statements from BYU spokeswoman Carri Jenkins in which she said that the school doesn’t serve or sell caffeinated drinks because there has not "been a demand for it."
The ban on caffeinated sodas is "not a university or church decision," Jenkins told The Salt Lake Tribune then, "but made by dining services, based on what our customers want." Source: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54875 ... d.html.csp
This is " a lie! Coke was and is forbidden in Europe at events of the church. We shall drink mineral water water or sweet lemonade; Fruit juices or Fruit teas. It is a rule at least for Europe which has "legal force". Whoever drinks Coke does not get a temple recommend and no patriarchal blessing. And of course he cannot make any career in the church either.

User avatar
Kuan
Site Supporter
Posts: 1806
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:21 am
Location: Rexburg, the Frozen Wasteland
Contact:

Post #2

Post by Kuan »

Well, in the official doctrine of the CoJCoLDS, there are only 5 things forbidden by the Word of Wisdom.

1. Smoking
2. Drinking alcohol
3. Illegal Drugs (So is marijuana ok for members in Colorado?)
4. Tea
5. Coffee

But it has been a common practice among members of the church to avoid caffeineted drinks. But you should be allowed by church official standards to enter the temple and get patriarcahl blessings and so forth if you drink coke or other stuff.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire

Kung may ayaw, may dahilan. Kung may gusto, may paraan.

User avatar
The Ex-Mormon
Apprentice
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Berne

Post #3

Post by The Ex-Mormon »

The "Word of Wisdom"?
Do you know that most people are just in Utah with overweight? Why? Because the members do not hold on to the WoW. I have lived some time in Idaho. And it was forbidden to the members there to drink Coke. Whoever did it anyway did not get any patriarchal blessing, no temple recommend, and also no church calling.
The order of the church, that the members should not use tobacco and coffee/black tea , is in my opinion an infringement of the personal rights of the members of the LDS. Joseph Smith never had gave this as an "order" but only as an advice. In his store business tobacco was chewed, whiskey drunk at that time; and sweet coffee consumes in large quantities.
The WoW was declared the law/order God only under Brigham Young which led a kind of LDS Taliban power in Utah.

revelationtestament
Scholar
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:48 am

Post #4

Post by revelationtestament »

You know what? I don't believe you. Church members in Florida are not asked if they drink Coke. I have on rare occasions. I also lived in Utah, and have never been asked if I drink Coke or "caffeinated beverages." I have only been asked if I keep the WoW, which means no coffee or tea - hot drinks. Obviously these are caffeinated drinks, and caffeine is an addicting drug. Watch Dr. Amen, a psychiatrist talk about brain health, and he says anything addicting is bad for our brains. So it seems the WoW was right, 150 yrs before this is known by science.

User avatar
The Ex-Mormon
Apprentice
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Berne

Post #5

Post by The Ex-Mormon »

revelationtestament wrote: You know what? I don't believe you. Church members in Florida are not asked if they drink Coke. I have on rare occasions. I also lived in Utah, and have never been asked if I drink Coke or "caffeinated beverages." I have only been asked if I keep the WoW, which means no coffee or tea - hot drinks. Obviously these are caffeinated drinks, and caffeine is an addicting drug. Watch Dr. Amen, a psychiatrist talk about brain health, and he says anything addicting is bad for our brains. So it seems the WoW was right, 150 yrs before this is known by science.

What Coke concerns, I only have reported of my own experiences and observations in Switzerland. If I wanted to go to the temple, I was not only asked whether I keep the WoW; I also was asked for single substances. Questions about drinking Coke or beer are the normality.
I would say nothing if the members would keep the WoW. Eating more meat than in summer e.g. only in winter. But much which is a problem for the health today was not a topic in the WoW. Approximately the whole area of fat and sugar. Have you seen once how much Hamburgers eats by members of the church at a barbecue in the church? Or how many breakfast eggs with bacon and fat sausage in Utah are part of a breakfast? These are cholesterol bombs!

User avatar
bluethread
Savant
Posts: 9129
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:10 pm

Post #6

Post by bluethread »

To be fair, if I am not mistaken, mormons see the WoW as scripture, or at least doctrine. As such, they would be a matters of discipline and not reason. One might make reasonable justifications, but, as matters of discipline, they would hold even without such justifications.

User avatar
The Ex-Mormon
Apprentice
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Berne

Post #7

Post by The Ex-Mormon »

bluethread wrote: To be fair, if I am not mistaken, mormons see the WoW as scripture, or at least doctrine. As such, they would be a matters of discipline and not reason. One might make reasonable justifications, but, as matters of discipline, they would hold even without such justifications.
Joseph Smith considered the WoW a piece of advice which everybody could take. At non-compliance had no punishment. Only Brigham Young made it a law in his "renewal movement". One had to follow the WoW from the moment; if one wanted to have a patriarchal blessing, a temple recommend or a calling in the church.
I personally regard many of these rules as good; but it is an insult of human existence to want to force people.

User avatar
Kuan
Site Supporter
Posts: 1806
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:21 am
Location: Rexburg, the Frozen Wasteland
Contact:

Post #8

Post by Kuan »

The Ex-Mormon wrote: The "Word of Wisdom"?
Do you know that most people are just in Utah with overweight? Why? Because the members do not hold on to the WoW. I have lived some time in Idaho. And it was forbidden to the members there to drink Coke. Whoever did it anyway did not get any patriarchal blessing, no temple recommend, and also no church calling.
The order of the church, that the members should not use tobacco and coffee/black tea , is in my opinion an infringement of the personal rights of the members of the LDS. Joseph Smith never had gave this as an "order" but only as an advice. In his store business tobacco was chewed, whiskey drunk at that time; and sweet coffee consumes in large quantities.
The WoW was declared the law/order God only under Brigham Young which led a kind of LDS Taliban power in Utah.
Comparing the LDS to the Taliban is pretty far to be honest. But I understand you. I lived in Utah my whole life and thats is how it is done. Her in the Philippines, its the same way. Under the official doctrie of the CoJCoLDS, it is forbidden to partake of those 5 substances, nothing more, nothing less. But you are right, there are more rules there that are under the D&C section 89

SO for the most part, I agree. Mormons dont do very well living most of the suggested actions for good health. But the ones that the larger part does well at is those 5 things. But honestly, what church has a perfect member? Yes, I definetley could do better on cutting down on meat and the such. Secondly, im sorry that I dont believe your statement. Must have had different experiences. In Utah, and Idaho (Lived in both) I have never encountered that at all.

Secondly, I dont see how it is a infringement of personal rights. Every member of this or any church has agency. We can leave the church and do whatever we want at anytime we want. Yes, it probably is hard to leave the church and I would support an argument that it could possibly infringe on people becuase of social circumstances, but no rights are being taking away. Period. There is always the ability to leave the church. I believe that you would be a prime example of this no?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire

Kung may ayaw, may dahilan. Kung may gusto, may paraan.

User avatar
Kuan
Site Supporter
Posts: 1806
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:21 am
Location: Rexburg, the Frozen Wasteland
Contact:

Post #9

Post by Kuan »

bluethread wrote: To be fair, if I am not mistaken, mormons see the WoW as scripture, or at least doctrine. As such, they would be a matters of discipline and not reason. One might make reasonable justifications, but, as matters of discipline, they would hold even without such justifications.
Yes, the word of wisdom is more on discipline. It does have some reasonable justifications and such, as any other rule, or health code. I personally appreciate this health code that I live by because it has taught me more about discipline and controlling myself.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire

Kung may ayaw, may dahilan. Kung may gusto, may paraan.

User avatar
The Ex-Mormon
Apprentice
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:53 pm
Location: Berne

Post #10

Post by The Ex-Mormon »

I have recently read a very interesting book about the faith of the LDS. It is called "Mormon Claims answered" and was written by Marvin Cowan. He wrote the book out from a Christian perspective; but what he wrote, shows that the LDS is built up on lies and legends. Here reconciles quotations from the book, that you can find also on the Internet:
Moroni or Nephi

The angel Moroni story has also been changed since the first edition of the P.of G.P. was published in 1851. That edition said that the angel "Nephi" revealed the gold plates to Smith (p. 41). Other early Mormon sources which mention the angel Nephi are: The Millennial Star Vol III, pp. 53, 71 and Times and Seasons Vol. III pp. 749, 753. In the latter volume on page 710, Joseph Smith said, "This paper commences my editorial career. I alone stand responsible for it." Thus, if the angel's name is wrong, Smith is at fault. In 1853, Joseph's mother, Lucy Mack Smith, also said the angel's name was Nephi (Biographical Sketches, p. 79). Most Mormons today have never heard that the angel Nephi revealed the gold plates to Joseph Smith. But, Mormons assume the B. of M. must have come from God if an angel revealed it to Joseph Smith. However, the Bible warns that even "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (II Cor. 11:14). The apostle Paul also said in Gal. 1:8, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Did Moroni (or Nephi) preach the same gospel that Paul did in Galatians and the other epistles? If Moroni did preach the same message as Paul did, we already had the message and therefore we do not need the B. of M. But, if Moroni preached a different gospel than Paul did, he is under the curse of Gal. 1:8-9.
Joseph Smith's Death

This book is too brief to discuss many of the historical details of Mormonism, but Joseph Smith's death deserves some comment. At the time of his death, Smith was living in Nauvoo, Illinois, the second largest city in the state. Smith taught that the Latter Day Saints should be gathered to one place (D. & C. 29:7-8). Therefore, Nauvoo was a Mormon town and Smith dominated its government as well as its religion. In Nauvoo, Smith began to privately teach Mormon leaders the doctrine of polygamy. When some Mormons heard what their leaders were doing, they vigorously opposed it. But, they did not get much attention until June 7, 1844, when they published the first and only edition of the Nauvoo Expositor newspaper. In it, they exposed Smith's lifestyle and that made him angry. He, along with the Nauvoo City Council, declared that the Nauvoo Expositor was a nuisance and had the marshal of the city destroy the press (D.H.C. Vol. 6, pp. 448-454). Those who opposed Smith filed a complaint with the courts in Hancock County, Illinois, saying that Smith had infringed on the freedom of the press. Smith was arrested for riot, but appealed for a writ of Habeas Corpous. He was tried in Nauvoo where he was quickly released. That upset the opposition, who claimed Smith had manipulated the law. The opposition grew until Smith was afraid Nauvoo would be attacked, so he declared martial law. Illinois had granted Nauvoo governmental power like a city-state. They had their own army, the Nauvoo Legion, and Smith was Lieutenant-General of that army. The opposition saw the declaration of martial law as an act of treason against the state of Illinois, so Smith was again arrested and taken to Carthage, Illinois, where he could not influence the court like he did in Nauvoo. It was while Smith was in jail at Carthage that he was killed by a mob.
Mormons often call Smith the "Martyred Prophet" and speak of his death much like Christ's death. Shortly before he died, Smith reportedly said, "I am going like a lamb to the slaughter" (D.& C. 135:4). Christ died without a fight (Luke 23:24; I Peter 2:23), but did Joseph Smith? On June 27, 1844, a mob came to the Carthage jail, where Joseph and Hyrum Smith were prisoners. Some of the mob entered the jail while others remained outside. As the mob started shooting,
Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel, Taylor for Markham's large hickory cane, and Dr. Richards for Taylor's cane. All sprang against the door, the balls whistled up the stairway, and in an instant one came through the door...Hyrum was retreating back in front of the door and snapped his pistol when a ball struck him in the left side of the nose, and he fell on his back on the floor saying, 'I am a dead man'...Joseph reached round the door casing, and discharged his six-shooter into the passage, some barrels missing fire (D.H.C., Vol. VI, pp. 617-618).
The introduction of the same volume says on page XLI, "the Prophet turned from the prostrate form of his murdered brother to face death-dealing guns and bravely returned the fire of his assailants, 'bringing his man down every time,' and compelling John Hay (former Secretary of State) who but reluctantly accords the Prophet any quality of virtue to confess that he 'made a handsome fight' in the jail."
John Taylor, who was in the jail with Smith and who later became the third LDS Prophet, said Joseph "opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive times. Only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died" (The Gospel Kingdom, p. 360; D.H.C., Vol. VII, pp. 100-103).
While we do not condone the action of the mob in killing Joseph and Hyrum Smith, we cannot agree with the LDS that Joseph was a martyr who went "as a lamb to the slaughter."
When Joseph Smith was killed, Brigham Young assumed the leadership of most of the Mormons. But many other factions joined together in 1860 under the leadership of Smith's son, Joseph Smith III, to form the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They are the second largest "Mormon" group, but dozens of other factions still exist. Each one claims it is the only true church and all others are apostate. For a description of some of those sects, see Little Known Schisms of the Restoration by Russell R. Rich, published by Brigham Young University. Kate Carter, past president of the Daughters of the Utah Pioneers said, "off-shoots from the original church are nearing the one hundred mark" (Denominations That Base Their Beliefs On The Teachings Of Joseph Smith, The Mormon Prophet, p. 1). Since that book was written, over 100 more Mormon schisms have been identified. Divergent Paths of the Restoration by Steven Shields, Published by Restoration Research, P.O. Box 547, Bountiful, UT 84010, identifies many of these schisms. By their existence, those schisms refute the LDS claim that a prophet will keep the church united and avoid factions and divisions.
Both quotations are from Chapter one.

And here some other quotes:
Changes in the Book of Mormon

Devout Mormons have often tried to defend the B. of M. by challenging non-Mormons to try to write a book of scripture like it. They have listed thirty ways such a book must be like the B. of M. But, most of their claims for the B. of M. are not valid. For example, they claim, "The first edition as you first dictate it to your secretary must stand forever." The Mormon who made that claim apparently did not know that there have been more than 4,000 changes in the B. of M. since the first edition! In the 1830 edition of the B. of M., notice:

1. Joseph Smith claimed to be the author on both the title page and in the preface. The title page now says "translator" and there is no preface.

2. I Nephi 11:18 said, "Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of God." Now it says, "...Mother of the Son of God."

3. I Nephi 11:21 said, "Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father!" Now it says, "...even the Son of the Eternal Father."

4. I Nephi 11:32 said, "And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the everlasting God was judged of the world." Now it says, "yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world."

5. I Nephi 13:40 said, "...and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the World." Now it says, "...that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father."

6. I Nephi 20:1 originally read exactly like Is. 48:1 in the King James Bible. Now it reads, "...out of the waters of Judah or out of the waters of baptism." Apostle Mark E. Petersen said, "A direct reference to baptism was plainly deleted from Isaiah 48:1" (As Translated Correctly, p. 14). Petersen was attempting to show how the B. of M. helped correct errors in the Bible, but he picked a very poor example because it is the B. of M. that has been changed! Neither the Hebrew text of Is. 48:1 nor the original B. of M. support the present reading of I Nephi 20:1. Even as late as the 1888 edition of the B. of M., that phrase was not in the text.

7. Alma 46:19 said, "He went forth among the people, waving the rent of his garment in the air, that all might see the writing which he wrote upon the rent." Now it says, "...waving the rent part of his garment in the air that all might see the writing which he had written upon the rent part." God's English in 1830 was about like Joseph Smith's!

8. Mosiah 21:28 said, "King Benjamin had a gift from God." Now it reads, "King Mosiah had a gift from God." Dr. Sidney B. Sperry of Brigham Young University said that "the reading King Benjamin is an out-and-out error, because the King had been dead for some time" (The Problems of the Book of Mormon, p. 203). He blamed the error on Mormon and the gold plates, and said this was "another human error that Joseph Smith was glad to correct." "King Benjamin" in Ether 4:1 was also changed to "King Mosiah." Since the gold plates are not available and there isn't one single copy of them in the original "Reformed Egyptian" language, there is no way to check Sperry's claim that this was Mormon's error. But, if the B. of M. was "translated" by the gift and power of God as LDS claim, why didn't God correct this "error" when the first B. of M. was published? And are there other errors in the B. of M. that still need to be corrected? More changes were made in the B. of M. in 1981 after Sperry wrote his book.

9. Alma 29:4 declares, "I had not ought to harrow up in my desires, the firm decree of a just God, for I know that he granteth unto men according to their desires, whether it be unto death or unto life; yea, I know that he alloteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable, according to their wills, whether it be unto salvation or unto destruction." From the second edition until 1981, the italicized words were omitted. It then read, "I ought not to harrow up in my desires — according to their desires.... yea I know that he alloteth unto men according to their wills, whether they be unto salvation or unto destruction."

That doctrinal change made it agree with D. & C. 56:4-5, which says, "Wherefore I, the Lord command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord. Wherefore, I revoke the commandment which was given unto my servants Thomas B. Marsh and Ezra Thayre, and give a new commandment unto my servant Thomas..." Since those italicized words were put back into Alma 29:4 in 1981, the contradiction of unalterable decrees that can be revoked is again in LDS scripture!

10. Alma 37:21 and 24 originally mentioned the use of "directors." Now it says "interpreters." The "interpreters" in the B. of M. were used to interpret languages while the "director" was a ball which functioned like a compass.
This quote was from chapter four.

And now my last quotes:
At the LDS General Conference on April 8, 1973, Apostle Mark E. Peterson said,

"Salvation is in the church, and of the church, and is obtained only through the church" (Deseret News, "Church News," April 14, 1973, p. 14)

. McConkie also declared,

"There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (M.D., 670).
Accept Joseph Smith and His Successors as "God's Mouthpiece"

President Joseph Fielding Smith said,

"Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground" (D. of S., Vol. I, p. 188).

Note that it is Joseph Smith, not Jesus Christ, upon which Mormonism stands or falls. Joseph Fielding Smith also said that there is

"no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith... No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Ibid., pp. 189-190).
President Harold B. Lee quoted LDS Prophet Heber J. Grant, saying,

"Brethren, keep your eye on the President of this church. If he tells you to do anything and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it. But you don't need to worry: the Lord will never let His mouthpiece lead this people astray" (Ensign, October, 1972, p. 7).

If that statement is true, then why wasn't is also true of the church Jesus established which LDS claim went into apostasy? LDS claim their church is a "restoration" of the church just like it was in the New Testament. If it is, then the New Testament church could not be led astray either!
Why did the Lord warn about false prophets if the LDS do not need to be concerned about them? A ward teacher's lesson by President J. Ruben Clark said, "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction it should mark the end of controversy" (Improvement Era, June, 1945, p. 354). If the thinking has been done when LDS leaders speak, God should have given them all the brains, since the other LDS do not need to think! (See our comments on "Prophets" and latter-day revelation for more information on this subject.) Jesus warns about "blind leaders of the blind" and says, "if the blind lead the blind both shall fall into the ditch" (Matt. 15:14).

These quotes are from Chapter eight.

Think of it!

Post Reply