Should people "shack-up" before marriage?

[Nickman]

I personally think that when two adults shack-up prior to marriage, they have a better chance of staying married and avoid divorce. This I have concluded from my own logic and experience. If we get to know a person prior to marriage on that level we are able to make a better decision about whether or not we can be married to that person. If we don't shack-up we won't be able to see how that person truly is in that setting. Christians tend to be against shacking-up which I feel has led to the statistics showing that they are more susceptible to divorce than atheists who do tend to shack-up.

What do you say? Should we shack up? Is it beneficial? If not why not?

P.S. Just because "god said so" is not a good answer. Please provide why it is harmful or wrong and the potential problem it could cause.

[Goat]

I don't know that I would ever get married again. If I did, though, I'd have my own separate bank account, keep the house in my name (thank God I did in the last marriage), and have a prenup.

The separate bank account is one that I stressed to my step daughter quite strongly (she finally got the message after a divorce where she got married much too early). and she came up with the concept of having the apartment in her name.

Boy, I'll be happy when she graduates college.

I have been married for forty years and we have never had separate bank accounts. But maybe we are just stupid, stupidly in love? I am bragging but I'm doing it on behalf of my wife who is the ROCK of our very extended family. My daughter has been married to her husband for 12yrs to a man that I told her not to marry and the love that is obvious between them proves me wrong every day. Didn't someone once say not to judge?
The idea that the penultimate expression of love should be withheld until after a meaningless ceremony has taken place is beyond absurd, it is in fact obscene. Especially when we consider where the prohibition came from, MEN who considered women as property.

I am glad that worked out for you, but I have also known a lot of people where that didn't work out. I know someone whose spouse to be (they were a couple of weeks from getting married), emptied out their joint bank account and left. Mind you, he deserved it, but that's a different matter.

The same thing supposedly happened to an uncle of mine, when he was married less than a year. I never got the full details on that though.

I have also seen too often that the bank account, and control of the money was a means to control the spouse.

And, if you 'shack up', separate bank accounts for SURE, and maybe a shared one for the shared expenses.

[10CC]

I don't know that I would ever get married again. If I did, though, I'd have my own separate bank account, keep the house in my name (thank God I did in the last marriage), and have a prenup.

The separate bank account is one that I stressed to my step daughter quite strongly (she finally got the message after a divorce where she got married much too early). and she came up with the concept of having the apartment in her name.

Boy, I'll be happy when she graduates college.

I have been married for forty years and we have never had separate bank accounts. But maybe we are just stupid, stupidly in love? I am bragging but I'm doing it on behalf of my wife who is the ROCK of our very extended family. My daughter has been married to her husband for 12yrs to a man that I told her not to marry and the love that is obvious between them proves me wrong every day. Didn't someone once say not to judge?
The idea that the penultimate expression of love should be withheld until after a meaningless ceremony has taken place is beyond absurd, it is in fact obscene. Especially when we consider where the prohibition came from, MEN who considered women as property.

I am glad that worked out for you, but I have also known a lot of people where that didn't work out. I know someone whose spouse to be (they were a couple of weeks from getting married), emptied out their joint bank account and left. Mind you, he deserved it, but that's a different matter.

The same thing supposedly happened to an uncle of mine, when he was married less than a year. I never got the full details on that though.

I have also seen too often that the bank account, and control of the money was a means to control the spouse.

And, if you 'shack up', separate bank accounts for SURE, and maybe a shared one for the shared expenses.

Or maybe LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and TRUST and TRUST and TRUST and LOVE & TRUST are the basis upon which marriage should be based? I see no reason for basing sexual attraction on the same.

[Goat]

Or maybe LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and TRUST and TRUST and TRUST and LOVE & TRUST are the basis upon which marriage should be based? I see no reason for basing sexual attraction on the same.

That would be wonderful, in a perfect world.

We, in case you didn't notice, are not in a perfect world. What sounds good in principle quite often does not work out in practice.

[10CC]

Or maybe LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and TRUST and TRUST and TRUST and LOVE & TRUST are the basis upon which marriage should be based? I see no reason for basing sexual attraction on the same.

That would be wonderful, in a perfect world.

We, in case you didn't notice, are not in a perfect world. What sounds good in principle quite often does not work out in practice.

Well I'm glad that someone told me that before I died. What would your advice have been before I got married? I'm not taking the piss, I am very serious. If you are incapable of believing in yourself and your decisions then you might as well just go off and find yourself a god and his preacher to advise you. I can't say goddan but I mean it, I learned to think for myself, I learned to make MY decisions, I learned that it was up to me. That is how catholics are brought up. We get to think for ourselves and when shiit happens in a marriage we can think for ourselves. But my wife who is very nominally CofE is a far better person than I could ever be and is the reason that we have survived all of the troubles we have encountered. It's my opinion that we have overcome all of these hurdles is because our union had nothing to do with our marriage. The marriage was for other people, we were united well before that ceremony ever happened.
I have something that is probably not pertinent to the discussion.
Anyone who wants or signs a prenup should just runaway. You are not getting married you are negotiating a business contract.

[Goat]

Or maybe LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and TRUST and TRUST and TRUST and LOVE & TRUST are the basis upon which marriage should be based? I see no reason for basing sexual attraction on the same.

That would be wonderful, in a perfect world.

We, in case you didn't notice, are not in a perfect world. What sounds good in principle quite often does not work out in practice.

Well I'm glad that someone told me that before I died. What would your advice have been before I got married? I'm not taking the piss, I am very serious. If you are incapable of believing in yourself and your decisions then you might as well just go off and find yourself a god and his preacher to advise you. I can't say goddan but I mean it, I learned to think for myself, I learned to make MY decisions, I learned that it was up to me. That is how catholics are brought up. We get to think for ourselves and when shiit happens in a marriage we can think for ourselves. But my wife who is very nominally CofE is a far better person than I could ever be and is the reason that we have survived all of the troubles we have encountered. It's my opinion that we have overcome all of these hurdles is because our union had nothing to do with our marriage. The marriage was for other people, we were united well before that ceremony ever happened.
I have something that is probably not pertinent to the discussion.
Anyone who wants or signs a prenup should just runaway. You are not getting married you are negotiating a business contract.

I personally have never thought about a prenup. However, I have seen too many people get stabbed in the back because of finances, or have finances be a tool for control.

The way I look at it.. if someone has their own bank account, above and beyond our shared bank account, I know they are staying because they want to stay, not because the feel the need. Not everyone is a control freak to be sure.. but too often it happens, and the method of control is MONEY, and access to money.

It worked fine for many people I know too.. but for the ones that it didn't, the price in pain and agony were sometimes very great.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 107 by 10CC]

I have been married, twice. Once I knew the guy for two years, visited him for a long time, almost every day, and yes, did spend the night with him (he had roommates that I encouraged him to have, to make some extra income for a while before we got married) and wore my clothes all night. It is possible to do. I was a virgin until we got married. I was unhappy. For twelve years I was not able to enjoy our sex life, but I knew nothing else. It was the internet that taught me differently. I probably wouldn't have gotten divorced had it not been for someone convincing me I could be happier. The second marriage, I didn't know them well, and DID get married too early, probably for the physical aspect of marriage. I am 45 now, and feel like a teenager starting all over. I don't want to make the mistake of marrying for security or sex. I believe you can know if you are sexually compatible if you spend enough time together holding hands, kissing, and not much other than snuggling. "Things" happen. You can feel it. As for being a teenager, maybe I am. I am mentally starting over, looking to be friends first. Hoping someone out there is smart enough to see that I am worth waiting for. Patience is a virtue. I have been through two divorces, one for 12 years, one for two, and I can say that it can be cheap to get married (second one was in the back yard of his parent's house), and cost a few hundred for the pastor and the license, and yes, he was abusive. It cost me 358 dollars for the divorce, which he agreed to, and paid for. This divorce had no kids, and no personal property to argue over, though. I wouldn't recommend getting married just to get divorced. I didn't plan it. It just happened. I have learned a lot. I hope someone else can learn from me, that you just don't get married for sex. Date for a while.
I would like to say it is important to really know someone. People can put on a facade for years, though, just to use someone's money (I paid 25 grand to fix his teeth, and then he moved on emotionally, looked at pornography after he saw that I didn't have more to spend on him). I do ramble on, and it is because I have A.D.D., so I hope you can forgive me.
I don't know that I would ever get married again. If I did, though, I'd have my own separate bank account, keep the house in my name (thank God I did in the last marriage), and have a prenup.

Are you a Christian?
If so, you probably should not have gotten married the second time, at least in the Christian god's eyes so it seems.

Math 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mark 10:11 Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another committeth adultery.
Luke 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife and marrieth another, committeth adultery.

If you are a Christian, it would seem that god still sees you as married to your first husband and any future sexual act would be committing adultery. Unless he cheated on you, then I think you get a free pass if I'm not mistaken (but then there is the 2nd husband scenario to worry about).

Perhaps god would prefer you re-adhere to the original covenant that you had made with him and your husband?

[10CC]

Or maybe LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and TRUST and TRUST and TRUST and LOVE & TRUST are the basis upon which marriage should be based? I see no reason for basing sexual attraction on the same.

That would be wonderful, in a perfect world.

We, in case you didn't notice, are not in a perfect world. What sounds good in principle quite often does not work out in practice.

Well I'm glad that someone told me that before I died. What would your advice have been before I got married? I'm not taking the piss, I am very serious. If you are incapable of believing in yourself and your decisions then you might as well just go off and find yourself a god and his preacher to advise you. I can't say goddan but I mean it, I learned to think for myself, I learned to make MY decisions, I learned that it was up to me. That is how catholics are brought up. We get to think for ourselves and when shiit happens in a marriage we can think for ourselves. But my wife who is very nominally CofE is a far better person than I could ever be and is the reason that we have survived all of the troubles we have encountered. It's my opinion that we have overcome all of these hurdles is because our union had nothing to do with our marriage. The marriage was for other people, we were united well before that ceremony ever happened.
I have something that is probably not pertinent to the discussion.
Anyone who wants or signs a prenup should just runaway. You are not getting married you are negotiating a business contract.

I personally have never thought about a prenup. However, I have seen too many people get stabbed in the back because of finances, or have finances be a tool for control.

The way I look at it.. if someone has their own bank account, above and beyond our shared bank account, I know they are staying because they want to stay, not because the feel the need. Not everyone is a control freak to be sure.. but too often it happens, and the method of control is MONEY, and access to money.

It worked fine for many people I know too.. but for the ones that it didn't, the price in pain and agony were sometimes very great.

But you are using the 1% rule. If one percent of people exceed the 100kphspeed limit by 50kph then if we fine the 99% who exceed it by 3kph with a fine beyond insanity we will change the attitude of the 1% we don't target. As CSNY sang teach your children well. It don't always work, even their god figured that out, but it's all we've got. The GREAT majority of married couples stay married for life.
America is not the world. It's people are in fact pitied by most of the western world.

[Goat]

Or maybe LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and LOVE and TRUST and TRUST and TRUST and LOVE & TRUST are the basis upon which marriage should be based? I see no reason for basing sexual attraction on the same.

That would be wonderful, in a perfect world.

We, in case you didn't notice, are not in a perfect world. What sounds good in principle quite often does not work out in practice.

Well I'm glad that someone told me that before I died. What would your advice have been before I got married? I'm not taking the piss, I am very serious. If you are incapable of believing in yourself and your decisions then you might as well just go off and find yourself a god and his preacher to advise you. I can't say goddan but I mean it, I learned to think for myself, I learned to make MY decisions, I learned that it was up to me. That is how catholics are brought up. We get to think for ourselves and when shiit happens in a marriage we can think for ourselves. But my wife who is very nominally CofE is a far better person than I could ever be and is the reason that we have survived all of the troubles we have encountered. It's my opinion that we have overcome all of these hurdles is because our union had nothing to do with our marriage. The marriage was for other people, we were united well before that ceremony ever happened.
I have something that is probably not pertinent to the discussion.
Anyone who wants or signs a prenup should just runaway. You are not getting married you are negotiating a business contract.

I personally have never thought about a prenup. However, I have seen too many people get stabbed in the back because of finances, or have finances be a tool for control.

The way I look at it.. if someone has their own bank account, above and beyond our shared bank account, I know they are staying because they want to stay, not because the feel the need. Not everyone is a control freak to be sure.. but too often it happens, and the method of control is MONEY, and access to money.

It worked fine for many people I know too.. but for the ones that it didn't, the price in pain and agony were sometimes very great.

But you are using the 1% rule. If one percent of people exceed the 100kphspeed limit by 50kph then if we fine the 99% who exceed it by 3kph with a fine beyond insanity we will change the attitude of the 1% we don't target. As CSNY sang teach your children well. It don't always work, even their god figured that out, but it's all we've got. The GREAT majority of married couples stay married for life.
America is not the world. It's people are in fact pitied by most of the western world.

It's not the 1% rule at all. Look at the divorce rate around the world.. the us might have one of the highest divorce rates, but a lot of countries are not far behind. I wonder how many of the ones that are less that 10% are not because people are happy, but because one side or the other is dominated by social convention? How many people would split if they could? I noticed in many of the countries that have low divorce also have a low degree of equality .. and woman are highly controlled.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 120:

Commitment ain't in a ceremony, or a piece of paper. It's the putting up with, and doing for someone where commitment shines.

...Joey has just defined MARRIAGE and he failed to mention gender or age or capacity or any other irrelevant rubbish that the seriously deluded think counts. But most especially the number ONE thing that is irrelevant to a marriage is RELIGION...

I 'preciate your 'preciation.

We notice often in religious circles folks are made to feel they are somehow special just for their beliefs. Not their doings per se, but just their beliefs alone. Evidence here could be in the form of repeated biblical quotes about how this'n or that'n is incapable of doing good - even if they're doing the exact same thing the theist considers good when it's him a-doing it.

We notice they often can't see that other beliefs can be just as 'special', without a god being involved. I notice in the debate regarding gay marriage that often the theist says such as, "I have nothing against homosexuals", but follows that up with various and sundry reasons as to why government shouldn't even mention that such folks are married. And it nigh on always boils down to the theist's fear that they might somehow be asked to be accepting of others, or that they would be compelled to change their beliefs. I don't know about y'all, but I've yet to see anyone change a belief based solely on getting told they oughta.

I propose that such a condition is not borne of reason, but of a certain arrogance of belief. It's borne of a lifetime of being told how special one is 'cause they believe in a god that not the first one of 'em can show exists. It's borne of the belief that if only you'd act as I say, well then it'll all be hunky dory. I further propose that we should not allow such thinking to interfere with the rights of others, up to and including trying to dictate who is and who ain't married, who is and who ain't "committed", or who is and who ain't worthy of recognition by their own government. Of course I would never propose that we enter the churches and demand folks think one way or the other, but I do propose we not allow their magical, rather egotistical thinking to enter into government.

I believe that if two gay guys wanna get married, let 'em. That doesn't mean I gotta turn all gay and get me a gay guy though. I'm still allowed to remain a commited bachelor of sorts, with my loving and sweet shackup by my side - as I note past laws that may have sought to prevent such.


Who is more committed, those stuck in a marriage they'd rather not be in, or those seeking to get into a marriage? Theists often tell us that marriage is of some such special import that shacking up just doesn't get us to. But then they often don't want gay folks a-doing it. This is, I contend, a bit hypocritical, to downright bigotted.

God so loved the world that poor ol' Jesus there had to die to show it, but don't it beat all, if one more gay guy gets gay married, God's gonna come back and smite us all. I say pffft to such an insolent god, and pffft to those hoping he does.

[Philbert]

But then they often don't want gay folks a-doing it. This is, I contend, a bit hypocritical, to downright bigotted.

I'm guessing there's more to it also...

Teachings about homosexuality are a very small part of the Old and New Testament. You know, it's barely mentioned in comparison with the other subjects covered in those texts.

So we might ask, why is the gay marriage issue such a big focus for entities like the Catholic Church these days?

I think many clerics, particularly Catholics, (my heritage) have seized upon this hot button issue and fueled the controversy as a way to fire up and motivate their core supporters. This is a classic base building technique that's widely used by political pros as well.

You know, if we were to analyze the Bible objectively, and see how little attention is given to this subject, one would expect clerics to barely mention it if at all.

So one goes looking for an explanation of why for instance the Catholic Church spent a couple million dollars in Minnesota trying to put a ban on gay marriage in the state constitution.

Did they run out of hungry people to feed? Probably not...