Matt 13:24 the wheat and the tares

[ttruscott]

Do you believe that all our sins are equal in Adam and gernerally our salvation is from the condemnation for our sins here on earth?

Let's discuss how the parable of the wheat and the tares impacts these ideas...

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The points for discussion:

Are the wheat reborn tares?

Whose 'fault' is it that the tares are sown in the field?

Why must the wheat live with the tares and suffer them?

What changes so that the angels may now bundle the tares to be burnt?

Peace, Ted

[ElCodeMonkey]

In the parable of the weeds the point is that we do not know who is a wheat and who is a tare and should not judge, lest we be judged I might add!

I don't think it means that Jesus planted one type of person and the devil another because that interpretation gives evil creative power, which is an oxymoron.

Clearly I don't disagree, but I don't understand what would be an oxymoron in this case nor why that matters.

To clarify, I meant that I agree that it's not people being planted. As for the "point" of it, I think I've made my own point already which disagrees with you in that we can indeed know. You know a tree by its fruit.

The criminal on the cross with Jesus had no fruit and yet he is in heaven. That would indicate that we can know who is a wheat better than who is a tare?

I won't vouch for the validity of the story in question, but one could indeed argue that the criminal would have begun demonstrating fruit had he come down and Jesus simply knew this with his God-powers. One could also argue that his statement alone was a form of fruit since it demonstrated true repentance and an empathy toward Jesus.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 21 by ElCodeMonkey]

Yes but no one outside of God would have recognised the criminal as wheat.

[ElCodeMonkey]

[Replying to post 21 by ElCodeMonkey]

Yes but no one outside of God would have recognised the criminal as wheat.

I'm not entirely sure why that matters exactly, but as my second sentence implies, I think that a simple phrase as that man's while hanging on a cross in the most extreme pain and suffering he's ever felt in his life, is indeed a sign of fruit.

[2ndpillar]

The answer to the parable is located at Mt 13:37-38
And no, the wheat are not reborn tares. The tares are born of the "evil one", and the good seed are the "sons of the kingdom" which are sown by the "son of man".
As to fault, you might look to the parable of Mt 13:19-23, whereas in another example, all the seeds are deemed similar at inception, yet conditions dictate outcome. In this case the seed would represent the "Word of God", which is sometimes watered, and sometimes thrown among the thorns, sometimes it reaches rocky ground, and sometimes it reaches fertile soil.
As why the angels come at the end of the age to bundle up the tares, it is because it is the end of the age, and judgment has come. Those who chose to follow the tares of the evil one, will ultimately have a dire consequence. As for who are the tares, which were prevented from being plucked from among the good wheat, the prime example would be a self professed apostle and prophet named Paul. Whose teaching were the basis of the Roman church instituted by the Roman King Constantine in the year 325 at the Council of Nicene. Paul's gospel of "Grace" is in opposition to the gospel of the Kingdom of God, which was Yeshua's message. And why is it no one understands Yeshua's message, it is explained in Mt 13:14-15. "For the heart of this people has become dull".

[Replying to post 1 by ttruscott]

Let's discuss how the parable of the wheat and the tares impacts these ideas...

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The points for discussion:

Are the wheat reborn tares?

Whose 'fault' is it that the tares are sown in the field?

Why must the wheat live with the tares and suffer them?

What changes so that the angels may now bundle the tares to be burnt?

[Yahu]

[Replying to post 1 by ttruscott]

No, wheat is NOT reborn tares. They are from a totally different type of seed. Wheat is of the seed of Adam/Noah while the tares are of Nephilim seed. Nephilim bllodlines existed after the flood, that is where the pagan gods came from. The angels that produced the post flood Nephilim lines where imprisoned at the time of Bable. They are the four angels bound under the Euphrates that get let back out of prison in Rev 9:14-15. They are the source of the post flood giants and mighty men.

We, the wheat, have the taint of Adam's disobedience while the Nephilim line were concieved in total rebellion against Yah's law. Tares are not called for salvation. The spiritual influences in their lives keeps them in total rebellion.

Now the tares are allowed to remain for several reasons. In order to wipe out the previous nephilim corruption, Yah sent the flood to wipe out all but a righteous remenant then promised not to bring such destruction again until the final judgement. Secondly, we grow in glory by overcoming evil. Without great evil to overcome, none would achieve great glory in the eternal kingdom. The nephilim lines provide that great evil with their total rebellion against the ways of Yah.

Yah has had a plan and a timetable to enact that plan from the very beginning. The angels get sent in to harvest when when it is harvest time. One of the funny things is the four angels that started the post flood nephilim lines get let out to destroy 1/3 of mankind, ie their own rebellious descendents.

[Yahu]

Now the seed referenced in this parable is not Word but actual seed, ie sperm.

Field in Hebrew is an idiom for the womb while land is an idiom for the woman. The Hebrew word for land is Adamah, the feminine form of Adam, ie Eve before she was named Eve. Now the second great matriarch (Noahs wife Na'amah) was nicknamed Erets, ie earth. She is who the ancient pagans worshipped as Mother Earth, the.mother of all mankind and the gods. The Canaanites called her Asherah. One of her titles that confuses secular scholars is her title of 'she who treads upon the sea' but she is an Earth goddess. It is easy to understand when you know she was on the ark with Noah.

Pisgah was one of her high places of worship for the pagans. When Balaam offered sacrifices on 3 highplaces of the Baalim, each was dedicated to a different member of the Baalim. Balak was trying three different gods to have Balaam curse the Israelites. The actual site on Pisgah was 'the Field of Zophim', the field of the Watchers'! Watchers is a term referencing fallen angels. Asherah's womb (field) where the pagan gods where concieved by fallen angels.

The son of man (Adam) in the parable is Noah who sowed his seed in his wife to produce Ham, Shem and Japheth. The ememy came and sowed his seed in the same field. That produced the twins called Molech and Ashtereth in scripture. Those are not really names but titles. The Greeks called the twins Apollo and Artemis for example.

The Sumeriams called that angle Anu (heavens) and his consort Ki (earth). Funny thing is Anu also had a consort named Naamah. Ki is just a nickname for Na'amah. Their children were the Anunaki, the children of Anu and Ki, the pagan gods of Babel.

If you dont understand the Old Testament and the battles against the paganism and the sources of that paganism, how can you understand a parable about those events? The old testament is riddled with clues about that conflict between those bloodlines. For example that is why marrying a Canaanite was forbidden. That bloodline was corrupted and had a lineage of giants. Those bloodlines were marked for total extermination.