Religions and crimes against humanity

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:31 pm

OK, we've all hear the recent allegations that the Vatican is aiding certain Balkan war crimes suspects in evading trial.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4265694.stm

But aside from the question of whether they are or they are not hiding this guy, the question arises about their duties and obligations to help bring such people to trial.

To quote:

Ms del Ponte said Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo, responsible for the city-state's foreign relations, told her in July that the Vatican had no obligation to assist the UN's war crimes tribunal in the Hague.

Chief Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls confirmed that this was the case.

I ask, under what moral, religious, political, or social standard do they claim "no obligation" to assist the tribunal? That sounds absurd on the face of it.

DanZ

youngborean · Post by **youngborean** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:02 pm

In Corinthians Paul pleads for believers not to take eachother to court, but to solve matters internally. The Vatican could be saying this becuase they have their own court waiting. But I doubt it. There really isn't any validation for this. And it is against other precepts in the NT such as being accountable to the powers that God has put in place.

AlAyeti · Post by **AlAyeti** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:52 pm

The Vatican may not trust the kinds of people that make up the Tribunal in Austria.

But it seems that saying you have "no obligation" is a gross cop-out. Helping to discover war crimes is something that Catholics should embrace.

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:31 am

He may have claimed sanctuary...

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:03 pm

I suspect that his 90 days are up.

Anyway, I am glad to see that we all seem to be on the same side of this issue. A little disappointed too. I wanted to use this to beat theists over the head with. Oh, well, can't win 'em all...

DanZ

AlAyeti · Post by **AlAyeti** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:09 pm

Muslim's are theists.

They certainly support atrocities and those that commit them.

I was on a radio station on a "Christian" show that somehow wanted to support the Branch Davidians as some kind of noble Christians persecuted by the feds.

I opposed the Branch Davidians as violent perpetrators. the children certainly didn't deserve to die, but Koresh and his willing followers had no right to shoot guns at others for any religious reason.

Christians cannot support violence and genocide.

Let's hope Roe v. Wade is reexamined as well.

micatala · Post by **micatala** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:10 pm

If all the tribunal wants is to have church officials provide whatever information they might have, it seems pretty unreasonable that they would not do so. It's not clear from the article exactly what 'assistance' is being asked for. 'Cooperation' they clearly should provide.

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:37 pm

If all the tribunal wants is to have church officials provide whatever information they might have, it seems pretty unreasonable that they would not do so.

But do you see a place to reasonably draw a line?

I mean, you say they should provide information. But would actual material assistance in evading justice be less objectionable?

DanZ

micatala · Post by **micatala** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:57 pm

I'm not following you. IF they gave material assistance to an accused war criminal to help him evade justice, this would be more objectionable then simply refusing to actively search for him. Did the article actually show that church officials have actively helped hide this guy?

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:43 pm

Did the article actually show that church officials have actively helped hide this guy?

No. But the implication, and apparently the belief of the investigators, is that the suspect in question is hiding in a monastery.

They also feel the same way about Karadzic:

She said UN prosecutors faced similar difficulties in tracking down the Bosnian Serb war crimes suspect Radovan Karadzic, who is thought to have sought refuge among Orthodox Christian monks in Montenegro.

With such a problem of ethnic and religious hatred in the region the accusation is very serious and quite possibly true.

I would think that the Vatican would stand high on their claims of morality, and declare that murder and genocide are incompatible with the christian faith and threaten anyone sheltering him with excomminucation.

DanZ