Civil. Respectful. Intelligent. Thoughtful. Challenging.

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 54, 55, 56  Next

Reply to topic
Justin108
First Post
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:57 am  What is the logic behind Jesus' crucifixion? Reply with quote

This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?

God makes the rules. There is no "God HAD to sacrifice Jesus" because God can do anything.

Christians often say that God cannot let sin go unpunished as it would be unjust; but is it any more just to sacrifice an innocent man on behalf of a guilty man? If a man rapes a little girl and the man's brother offers to go to prison on his behalf, would this be justice?

If god is satisfied by punishment without guilt (Jesus), why is he not satisfied with guilt without punishment?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 21: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:15 am
Reply
Re: What is the logic behind Jesus' crucifixion?

Like this post
1213 wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?


As the Bible shows, Jesus had right to forgive sins even before hid death. Therefore death was not needed for forgiving.

The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.
Luke 5:21-25

Jesus allowed the murder to show his faithfulness to God and for to be example of how faithful his disciples should be to God. And that way God could also show the reward for being faithful, by raising Jesus from the death. At least if you believe in the Bible.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance; that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures - 1 Corinthians 15:3

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. - 1 John 4:10

For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. - Romans 3:25

He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins - Ephesians 1:7




Clear as day.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 22: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:52 am
Reply

Like this post
Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?



Until you learn to do math.....You can't play with the teacher. It's pointless.
You get what I'm telling you? That's why we(Creationist) are all stupid when it comes to evolution....Right?
Now....study the bible with people that KNOW the bible then you may able to play.
Right now...You are lost when in comes to things of God.


You know, I try not to get irritated, but this kind of belief-centered, patronizing, self-righteous babble really pisses me off.

Your answers are in no way akin to a debate and are based on some sort of notion that you somehow "get it" and others are missing the point because they don't share your own supremely enlightened point of view. Not to mention the fact that your spelling and grammar are terrible and don't help your cause. It's people WHO know the bible, by the way. Your initial post was terribly written as well.

The problem with theists like you is that you constantly shift the goal posts based on your interpretation. The catch 22 in a debate such as this is nothing can be proven or disproven because you make up the rules as you go.

A belief is not a fact. It's an emotional circumstance in your mind. Most of us have read the NT and if you can't come to terms with the fact that people don't "get it" like you do, you don't have a place on this forum

Cheers d'oh!

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 23: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:54 am
Reply

Like this post
HiddenHand wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?



Until you learn to do math.....You can't play with the teacher. It's pointless.
You get what I'm telling you? That's why we(Creationist) are all stupid when it comes to evolution....Right?
Now....study the bible with people that KNOW the bible then you may able to play.
Right now...You are lost when in comes to things of God.


You know, I try not to get irritated, but this kind of belief-centered, patronizing, self-righteous babble really pisses me off.

Your answers are in no way akin to a debate and are based on some sort of notion that you somehow "get it" and others are missing the point because they don't share your own supremely enlightened point of view. Not to mention the fact that your spelling and grammar are terrible and don't help your cause. It's people WHO know the bible, by the way. Your initial post was terribly written as well.

The problem with theists like you is that you constantly shift the goal posts based on your interpretation. The catch 22 in a debate such as this is nothing can be proven or disproven because you make up the rules as you go.

A belief is not a fact. It's an emotional circumstance in your mind. Most of us have read the NT and if you can't come to terms with the fact that people don't "get it" like you do, you don't have a place on this forum

Cheers d'oh!



Typical atheist response...."They read the NT" So what? You can't even phantom a being higher than yourself. You are your own gods. That in itself, is a closed mind attitude to the known universe. This is why atheist never discover anything. You can only see death.

You hate the idea of God....Because it accuses of your sin. No one likes to here they are not perfect.

Cheers


Last edited by Tex on Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 24: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:59 am
Reply

Like this post
Tex wrote:

HiddenHand wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?



Until you learn to do math.....You can't play with the teacher. It's pointless.
You get what I'm telling you? That's why we(Creationist) are all stupid when it comes to evolution....Right?
Now....study the bible with people that KNOW the bible then you may able to play.
Right now...You are lost when in comes to things of God.


You know, I try not to get irritated, but this kind of belief-centered, patronizing, self-righteous babble really pisses me off.

Your answers are in no way akin to a debate and are based on some sort of notion that you somehow "get it" and others are missing the point because they don't share your own supremely enlightened point of view. Not to mention the fact that your spelling and grammar are terrible and don't help your cause. It's people WHO know the bible, by the way. Your initial post was terribly written as well.

The problem with theists like you is that you constantly shift the goal posts based on your interpretation. The catch 22 in a debate such as this is nothing can be proven or disproven because you make up the rules as you go.

A belief is not a fact. It's an emotional circumstance in your mind. Most of us have read the NT and if you can't come to terms with the fact that people don't "get it" like you do, you don't have a place on this forum

Cheers d'oh!



Typical atheist response...."They read the NT" So what? You can't even phantom a being higher than yourself. You are your own gods. That is itself, is a closed mind attitude to the known universe. This is why atheist never discover anything. You can only see death.

You hate the idea of God....Because it accuses of your sin. No one likes to here they are not perfect.

Cheers

I know I'm not perfect. And I know I have done wrong in the past. If all you can offer to the debate is insults then you don't belong here. This is a forum for civil and intellectual debates. Do you have anything to contribute to the debate? No? Then do us all a favor and shut up

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 25: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:10 am
Reply
Re: What is the logic behind Jesus' crucifixion?

Like this post
Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Goat wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?

God makes the rules. There is no "God HAD to sacrifice Jesus" because God can do anything.

Christians often say that God cannot let sin go unpunished as it would be unjust; but is it any more just to sacrifice an innocent man on behalf of a guilty man? If a man rapes a little girl and the man's brother offers to go to prison on his behalf, would this be justice?

If god is satisfied by punishment without guilt (Jesus), why is he not satisfied with guilt without punishment?


You see.....The thing about God, is that God is the "master planner" And God will always do thing that we as humans will never understand.
So your question are just that....A way of trying to hurt are beliefs.

How can I, a creation ever understand God? IN the things I do....I Do. IN the thing I do not I must trust. I trust God because he was willing to give up that which he loved the most, in order to save what he could destroy in a blink of an eye.

We all have choices to make. One of them is to give your soul to God. If you do not, then you will never be able to withstand Satan.
Satan in heaven is too dangerous.


Can you show that 'God is the master planner'. Is that anything more than a statement of belief? Or , is that just an excuse to try to make sense of stories that otherwise don't make sense.

Can you provide any evidence that "God is a master planner', or is that just one of those 'unsupported claims' I keep on hearing about.



Read the NT.

Hey did you hear? They discovered life on other planets! And one of the aliens now lives on earth! Proof? Read the Superman comics



Yes...and before Superman.....There was the Greek gods. What are you telling me that I don't know already.
So, like always.....the staff of Moses, when it is put to the floor will always eat up false gods.
Do you know about Moses? That's all "bull" also right? All you see is death and teach death for our future children. Great reason to create life. Hey son...I put you on this earth to watch your parents get old an die. And maybe "nothing forbid" I watch my own son die before me. For what purpose? A good time in bed with my wife. BTW...You know it's by having sex with opposite sex, that you create a child? Or are you waiting for a man to evolve before having kids?

Well....if your lucky, science will be able to make men have kids. The god you believe in. But then again, you would think they would first learn how to conquer death.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 26: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:15 am
Reply

Like this post
Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

HiddenHand wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?



Until you learn to do math.....You can't play with the teacher. It's pointless.
You get what I'm telling you? That's why we(Creationist) are all stupid when it comes to evolution....Right?
Now....study the bible with people that KNOW the bible then you may able to play.
Right now...You are lost when in comes to things of God.


You know, I try not to get irritated, but this kind of belief-centered, patronizing, self-righteous babble really pisses me off.

Your answers are in no way akin to a debate and are based on some sort of notion that you somehow "get it" and others are missing the point because they don't share your own supremely enlightened point of view. Not to mention the fact that your spelling and grammar are terrible and don't help your cause. It's people WHO know the bible, by the way. Your initial post was terribly written as well.

The problem with theists like you is that you constantly shift the goal posts based on your interpretation. The catch 22 in a debate such as this is nothing can be proven or disproven because you make up the rules as you go.

A belief is not a fact. It's an emotional circumstance in your mind. Most of us have read the NT and if you can't come to terms with the fact that people don't "get it" like you do, you don't have a place on this forum

Cheers d'oh!



Typical atheist response...."They read the NT" So what? You can't even phantom a being higher than yourself. You are your own gods. That is itself, is a closed mind attitude to the known universe. This is why atheist never discover anything. You can only see death.

You hate the idea of God....Because it accuses of your sin. No one likes to here they are not perfect.

Cheers

I know I'm not perfect. And I know I have done wrong in the past. If all you can offer to the debate is insults then you don't belong here. This is a forum for civil and intellectual debates. Do you have anything to contribute to the debate? No? Then do us all a favor and shut up



Insults???? That's funny....Who's going around putting up verses of the NT and trying to insult every Christian on this board?
Please...don't play the ignorant card....Like you really want to believe what we believe.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 27: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:24 am
Reply
Re: What is the logic behind Jesus' crucifixion?

Like this post
Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Goat wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?

God makes the rules. There is no "God HAD to sacrifice Jesus" because God can do anything.

Christians often say that God cannot let sin go unpunished as it would be unjust; but is it any more just to sacrifice an innocent man on behalf of a guilty man? If a man rapes a little girl and the man's brother offers to go to prison on his behalf, would this be justice?

If god is satisfied by punishment without guilt (Jesus), why is he not satisfied with guilt without punishment?


You see.....The thing about God, is that God is the "master planner" And God will always do thing that we as humans will never understand.
So your question are just that....A way of trying to hurt are beliefs.

How can I, a creation ever understand God? IN the things I do....I Do. IN the thing I do not I must trust. I trust God because he was willing to give up that which he loved the most, in order to save what he could destroy in a blink of an eye.

We all have choices to make. One of them is to give your soul to God. If you do not, then you will never be able to withstand Satan.
Satan in heaven is too dangerous.


Can you show that 'God is the master planner'. Is that anything more than a statement of belief? Or , is that just an excuse to try to make sense of stories that otherwise don't make sense.

Can you provide any evidence that "God is a master planner', or is that just one of those 'unsupported claims' I keep on hearing about.



Read the NT.

Hey did you hear? They discovered life on other planets! And one of the aliens now lives on earth! Proof? Read the Superman comics



Yes...and before Superman.....There was the Greek gods. What are you telling me that I don't know already.
So, like always.....the staff of Moses, when it is put to the floor will always eat up false gods.
Do you know about Moses? That's all "bull" also right? All you see is death and teach death for our future children. Great reason to create life. Hey son...I put you on this earth to watch your parents get old an die. And maybe "nothing forbid" I watch my own son die before me. For what purpose? A good time in bed with my wife. BTW...You know it's by having sex with opposite sex, that you create a child? Or are you waiting for a man to evolve before having kids?

Well....if your lucky, science will be able to make men have kids. The god you believe in. But then again, you would think they would first learn how to conquer death.

"I don't like the idea of life without God so I'm gona think one exists in order to feel better about life"
- Is that the gist of it? Why stop there? I don't like the idea of a life without dragons. But no matter how much I would like there to be dragons, my desire for them to be real has no bearing on the truth of the matter.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 28: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:25 am
Reply

Like this post
Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

HiddenHand wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?



Until you learn to do math.....You can't play with the teacher. It's pointless.
You get what I'm telling you? That's why we(Creationist) are all stupid when it comes to evolution....Right?
Now....study the bible with people that KNOW the bible then you may able to play.
Right now...You are lost when in comes to things of God.


You know, I try not to get irritated, but this kind of belief-centered, patronizing, self-righteous babble really pisses me off.

Your answers are in no way akin to a debate and are based on some sort of notion that you somehow "get it" and others are missing the point because they don't share your own supremely enlightened point of view. Not to mention the fact that your spelling and grammar are terrible and don't help your cause. It's people WHO know the bible, by the way. Your initial post was terribly written as well.

The problem with theists like you is that you constantly shift the goal posts based on your interpretation. The catch 22 in a debate such as this is nothing can be proven or disproven because you make up the rules as you go.

A belief is not a fact. It's an emotional circumstance in your mind. Most of us have read the NT and if you can't come to terms with the fact that people don't "get it" like you do, you don't have a place on this forum

Cheers d'oh!



Typical atheist response...."They read the NT" So what? You can't even phantom a being higher than yourself. You are your own gods. That is itself, is a closed mind attitude to the known universe. This is why atheist never discover anything. You can only see death.

You hate the idea of God....Because it accuses of your sin. No one likes to here they are not perfect.

Cheers

I know I'm not perfect. And I know I have done wrong in the past. If all you can offer to the debate is insults then you don't belong here. This is a forum for civil and intellectual debates. Do you have anything to contribute to the debate? No? Then do us all a favor and shut up



Insults???? That's funny....Who's going around putting up verses of the NT and trying to insult every Christian on this board?
Please...don't play the ignorant card....Like you really want to believe what we believe.

I am not trying to insult anyone. I am debating Christianity. That's what this forum is for incase you haven't noticed.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 29: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:29 am
Reply

Like this post
Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

HiddenHand wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?



Until you learn to do math.....You can't play with the teacher. It's pointless.
You get what I'm telling you? That's why we(Creationist) are all stupid when it comes to evolution....Right?
Now....study the bible with people that KNOW the bible then you may able to play.
Right now...You are lost when in comes to things of God.


You know, I try not to get irritated, but this kind of belief-centered, patronizing, self-righteous babble really pisses me off.

Your answers are in no way akin to a debate and are based on some sort of notion that you somehow "get it" and others are missing the point because they don't share your own supremely enlightened point of view. Not to mention the fact that your spelling and grammar are terrible and don't help your cause. It's people WHO know the bible, by the way. Your initial post was terribly written as well.

The problem with theists like you is that you constantly shift the goal posts based on your interpretation. The catch 22 in a debate such as this is nothing can be proven or disproven because you make up the rules as you go.

A belief is not a fact. It's an emotional circumstance in your mind. Most of us have read the NT and if you can't come to terms with the fact that people don't "get it" like you do, you don't have a place on this forum

Cheers d'oh!



Typical atheist response...."They read the NT" So what? You can't even phantom a being higher than yourself. You are your own gods. That is itself, is a closed mind attitude to the known universe. This is why atheist never discover anything. You can only see death.

You hate the idea of God....Because it accuses of your sin. No one likes to here they are not perfect.

Cheers

I know I'm not perfect. And I know I have done wrong in the past. If all you can offer to the debate is insults then you don't belong here. This is a forum for civil and intellectual debates. Do you have anything to contribute to the debate? No? Then do us all a favor and shut up



Insults???? That's funny....Who's going around putting up verses of the NT and trying to insult every Christian on this board?
Please...don't play the ignorant card....Like you really want to believe what we believe.

I am not trying to insult anyone. I am debating Christianity. That's what this forum is for incase you haven't noticed.



Are you interested in believing in CHrist who died for your sins? Or do you believe it to be just a superman comic?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 30: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:31 am
Reply

Like this post
JUstice wrote
Quote:
"I don't like the idea of life without God so I'm gona think one exists in order to feel better about life"


Then you believe that the Bible is a lie or a book of fairy tales? Yes

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 54, 55, 56  Next

Jump to:  
Facebook
Tweet

 




On The Web | Ecodia | Hymn Lyrics Apps
Facebook | Twitter

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.   Produced by Ecodia.

Igloo   |  Lo-Fi Version