What is the logic behind Jesus' crucifixion?

[Justin108]

This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?

God makes the rules. There is no "God HAD to sacrifice Jesus" because God can do anything.

Christians often say that God cannot let sin go unpunished as it would be unjust; but is it any more just to sacrifice an innocent man on behalf of a guilty man? If a man rapes a little girl and the man's brother offers to go to prison on his behalf, would this be justice?

If god is satisfied by punishment without guilt (Jesus), why is he not satisfied with guilt without punishment?

[1213]

You seem to make the point that in Jesus' death, the news of his life spread. But I assure you, the news would have spread even further had the Romans failed to kill him. Don't you think news of a man that was immune to Roman swords would spread?

Jesus wanted to show example how loyal we should be to the God. Therefore the death was allowed to happen. It seems to be so that the whole life of Jesus was example to all his disciples.

[1213]

...but we do not inherit Adam's transgression.

I think that depends very much of what we think sin means. In my opinion it means that we are separated from God. And all people are separated from God, because we live in this “land of death shadow� and not in “heaven�.

[1213]

So God set up a system, where he took two innocents who did not yet have an understanding of good and evil/ right and wrong - put a tree with delicious apples on it, and punished them eternally for committing an act they could not have known was wrong or evil?

And what support you have for that “punished them eternally�? Did Adam and Eve live eternally?

I think this world is not punishment. This is answer to peoples need to know like God evil and good. In "home" of God there is no evil. And people wanted to know evil. Therefore we were forced to leave that place with God to learn what good and evil means. And evil seems to be lack of God.

And those who choose good, because of right understanding will have eternal life and opportunity to come back to God, so I believe because of what the Bible tells.

In my opinion this life is like school, where we can learn and show are we suitable to the kingdom of righteousness.

[Justin108]

You seem to make the point that in Jesus' death, the news of his life spread. But I assure you, the news would have spread even further had the Romans failed to kill him. Don't you think news of a man that was immune to Roman swords would spread?

Jesus wanted to show example how loyal we should be to the God. Therefore the death was allowed to happen. It seems to be so that the whole life of Jesus was example to all his disciples.

1 John 2:2

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world"



He was sacrificed for our sins. Your interpretation of "his death was just an example" is far fetched. I don't see how you could use this text to reach your interpretation. You are selectively interpreting the text to fit your conclusion. An unbias interpretation would never reach your conclusion.

[TheJoshAbideth]

So God set up a system, where he took two innocents who did not yet have an understanding of good and evil/ right and wrong - put a tree with delicious apples on it, and punished them eternally for committing an act they could not have known was wrong or evil?

And what support you have for that “punished them eternally�? Did Adam and Eve live eternally?

I think this world is not punishment. This is answer to peoples need to know like God evil and good. In "home" of God there is no evil. And people wanted to know evil. Therefore we were forced to leave that place with God to learn what good and evil means. And evil seems to be lack of God.

And those who choose good, because of right understanding will have eternal life and opportunity to come back to God, so I believe because of what the Bible tells.

In my opinion this life is like school, where we can learn and show are we suitable to the kingdom of righteousness.

Your point is salient and I will accept the correction. However this does not change in any sense that the concept of original sin sets up a system that doles out eternal punishment for finite crimes. Also How could Adam and Eve have desired to know evil (or good for that matter) unless they had some prior knowledge of what it was?

[1213]

Your point is salient and I will accept the correction. However this does not change in any sense that the concept of original sin sets up a system that doles out eternal punishment for finite crimes. Also How could Adam and Eve have desired to know evil (or good for that matter) unless they had some prior knowledge of what it was?

Sorry, I don’t understand how that doles out eternal punishment for finite crimes?

I have understood that eternal life is for righteous. Others have eternal/final death. I don’t think that really depends on any works, it depends of persons “mind�. Works can only show is person righteous.

According to the Bible, they wanted to know what evil is. I don’t think that can happen, if they already knew what it is.

[TheJoshAbideth]

Your point is salient and I will accept the correction. However this does not change in any sense that the concept of original sin sets up a system that doles out eternal punishment for finite crimes. Also How could Adam and Eve have desired to know evil (or good for that matter) unless they had some prior knowledge of what it was?

Sorry, I don’t understand how that doles out eternal punishment for finite crimes?

I have understood that eternal life is for righteous. Others have eternal/final death. I don’t think that really depends on any works, it depends of persons “mind�. Works can only show is person righteous.

Did or Did not God create a system to where you either do exactly as he says or you go to hell? Do you believe in Hell?

According to the Bible, they wanted to know what evil is. I don’t think that can happen, if they already knew what it is.

Ding Ding Ding!! Exactly! This is one of the many inconsistencies in the OT that show it should be taken as nothing more than mythological folklore.

[Untraveled Trail]

According to the Bible, they wanted to know what evil is. I don’t think that can happen, if they already knew what it is.

Ding Ding Ding!! Exactly! This is one of the many inconsistencies in the OT that show it should be taken as nothing more than mythological folklore.

There's nothing wrong with myths/mythology...Mythology is the way human beings try to make sense of the world and life. The prevailing mythology of this age is science. At some point another generation will come along and what we currently regard as certain based on our scientific understanding will be dismissed in favor of another model.

But there is power and truth contained within the myth... a power and truth capable of altering or changing people's lives and belief systems, motivating them to do things (both good and bad) that they may not have chosen to do otherwise.

To the question at hand, Jesus of Nazareth was executed via crucifixion for sedition against the Roman government. Yet, the cult that followed him continued to share his teachings and minister to the needs of others in his name. Claims were made that believers had encountered the living Jesus after the crucifixion giving rise to the belief the he was living and some in fact stated he had resurrected from the dead. The power of that belief led many people to significantly alter their lives on behalf of others.

Myths have a transforming power for those willing to invest themselves. This goes for religious, political, or scientific myths.

[TheJoshAbideth]

According to the Bible, they wanted to know what evil is. I don’t think that can happen, if they already knew what it is.

Ding Ding Ding!! Exactly! This is one of the many inconsistencies in the OT that show it should be taken as nothing more than mythological folklore.

There's nothing wrong with myths/mythology...Mythology is the way human beings try to make sense of the world and life. The prevailing mythology of this age is science. At some point another generation will come along and what we currently regard as certain based on our scientific understanding will be dismissed in favor of another model.

But there is power and truth contained within the myth... a power and truth capable of altering or changing people's lives and belief systems, motivating them to do things (both good and bad) that they may not have chosen to do otherwise.

To the question at hand, Jesus of Nazareth was executed via crucifixion for sedition against the Roman government. Yet, the cult that followed him continued to share his teachings and minister to the needs of others in his name. Claims were made that believers had encountered the living Jesus after the crucifixion giving rise to the belief the he was living and some in fact stated he had resurrected from the dead. The power of that belief led many people to significantly alter their lives on behalf of others.

Myths have a transforming power for those willing to invest themselves. This goes for religious, political, or scientific myths.

I would try looking up the definition of the word myth, before you compare it to science, as even outdated science is never referred to as being myth.

Whats more any truth found in mythology is purely allegorical and the stories should not be taken as literal truth - if the OT is in fact myth then the NT is as well.

[Untraveled Trail]

I would try looking up the definition of the word myth, before you compare it to science, as even outdated science is never referred to as being myth.

Whats more any truth found in mythology is purely allegorical and the stories should not be taken as literal truth - if the OT is in fact myth then the NT is as well.

I would consider both the Old and New Testaments to be primarily myth but that doesn't necessarily make them untrue.

Myth, as I used it, is a system of beliefs by which a person makes sense of life and the world around him/her. Nearly every avenue of science I know fits that category, modern and outdated alike. All truth is subjective.