Was Jesus a carpenter?

[QED]

In another thread

Christians assume Jesus was a carpenter, but there is not one verse in the Bible where this guy even picks up a hammer. What did work mean to Jesus? I get up and go to the office the whole work week. Jesus doesn't talk much about work.

I've often wondered about this. Jesus, as God in human form, is supposed to have been a carpenter. So were people furnishing their homes with chairs that God made? I bet that would make them valuable! Too bad no ebay at that time!

Seriously though: In his supposed time here on Earth he must have created something akin to commercial produce, this is something a man of any time must do to live. So when it was realised (for example by the 500 or so that witnessed his ascension) that Jesus was indeed more than just a man -- wouldn't there have been a major run on his work? After all, nobody was keeping things a secret. People must have been going around telling others that God had just paid a visit and nobody thought to save any of his earthly artefacts? One might expect people to hang on to such invaluable treasures. What about his own property -- he may have lived light but I doubt if he was totally without personal possessions. How did all this stuff get thrown away? It doesn't sound right to me. Not if he was a real historical figure as described in the bible.

So what evidence is there that Jesus was a carpenter? And why did none of his possessions make it to the current day? We have all sorts of artefacts from previous millennia to his; from the Pharaohs kings and Priests. Surely even more care would have been taken by things handled by God?

[McCulloch]

Not many wood products make it past the 2000 year mark. But I've got an authentic hammer head used by Jesus in his carpentry apprenticeship. And because you are a good friend, I'll let you own it for a mere $700 US. And with each order, I'll include some nails (not the nails) used in his high-school shop class.

[QED]

Not many wood products make it past the 2000 year mark. But I've got an authentic hammer head used by Jesus in his carpentry apprenticeship. And because you are a good friend, I'll let you own it for a mere $700 US. And with each order, I'll include some nails (not the nails) used in his high-school shop class.

I knew this would bring out the ho-ho's But lots of wooden things have survived 4000 years from ancient Egypt, and I'm thinking about the emotional attachment that anyone would have to thee articles in question. How would it be conceivable that anything belonging to Jesus might be discarded?

[palmera]

Perhaps, but you're assuming people knew he was divine during his carpentry years. Even so, a few chairs, a table, or a cross he may have built wouldn't last 2000 yrs. Think about the wear and tear of objects used daily. Apparently one thing has lasted: Indiana Jones found the grail he used for the last supper... it was wooden, suggesting he probably furnished it himself... alas it's been lost.

It's an interesting question though, but it's not practical that if he was a carpenter (metaphor perhaps? On the same lines, one could ask about the whereabouts of his shepherd's staff.) that he would have constructed anything of greater significance than houshold items.

[Chimp]

He was the son of a carpenter. I think it is assumed that he too was a
carpenter.

I get the impression he didn't have a lot of stuff, since they roamed around
a lot. I can't imagine lugging furniture around in boats and on foot as very
practical.

[QED]

Perhaps, but you're assuming people knew he was divine during his carpentry years.

No, that's not my understanding of his chronology. However, in his later life he would have been easily identified by those who knew of him in his his early years. While there is no mention of him 'going undercover', the bible is remarkably silent on his formative period. A chair or table would only have to last 20 years or so for people to realise its provenance. Of course chairs and tables are only one of many examples of handicraft. I cannot envisage any intelligent person going through the motions of human existence without creating anything.

Even so, a few chairs, a table, or a cross he may have built wouldn't last 2000 yrs. Think about the wear and tear of objects used daily.

You miss the point -- any artefact that was identified as belonging to Jesus would be identified within a generation. I see no reason to think that material possessions were of any lowlier status than they are to day. Logic dictates that in a pre-industrialized civilization material possession would have had even higher value to their owners and heirs than today. Neither do I think our current tendency to venerate the material possessions of current celebrities would be any different in the past for similar reasons. Lasting a few thousand years is no problem for virtually any material if it has sufficient provenance.

Apparently one thing has lasted: Indiana Jones found the grail he used for the last supper... it was wooden, suggesting he probably furnished it himself... alas it's been lost.

You see, there is a concept of holy relics dating all the way back to biblical times. Lots of rumours and myth but very little (if anything) concrete. Correct me if I'm wrong but a huge chunk of the modern world rests on Christian foundations. Since Jesus was understood to be 'God in the flesh' while he was still here on Earth, I'd expect the magnitude of this realization to engender a concerted effort to collect and curate as much of his material estate as humanly possible. After all, this was the the most important person in the entire cosmos let alone the Earth!

How can we imagine anyone checking through their heirlooms and deciding "oh that old comb of Jesus's is looking a bit ratty -- I think I'll toss it away now"

It's an interesting question though, but it's not practical that if he was a carpenter (metaphor perhaps? On the same lines, one could ask about the whereabouts of his shepherd's staff.) that he would have constructed anything of greater significance than houshold items.

What of the cross itself I wonder? If we were to count all the odd's and ends of material possession and association with a man living to early middle-age in the Roman empire I would expect their number to be significantly greater than zero. If they belonged to 'any old person' we would not expect them to be around today of course. But Jesus is not supposed to be any old person.

[Chimp]

In your musings you might consider the historical events surrounding that
era. Two revolutions and an occupying empire.

While it is possible for wood to last 2000+ yrs, the real issue is the
existance of anything from the first century Jerusalem area.

Items from the first century are not that common.

Consider what just happened in New Orleans...people lost literally
everything. Invasions, rebellions, crusades, disasters will all have their
toll on future artifacts.

[micatala]

Interesting thread QED, and certainly one where we can let our imaginations run a bit.

I'll throw out another factor.

I think it is fairly clear from NT texts that the Apostles and others fully expected Jesus to return to earth in their lifetimes, and that this was going to be some kind of a cataclysmic event (although the details as related in Revelations my not have yet been on anyone's mind). If one believed that the 'world as we know it' was not going to be around much longer, it would be sort of pointless to stash away an old hammer.

You miss the point -- any artefact that was identified as belonging to Jesus would be identified within a generation. I see no reason to think that material possessions were of any lowlier status than they are to day. Logic dictates that in a pre-industrialized civilization material possession would have had even higher value to their owners and heirs than today. Neither do I think our current tendency to venerate the material possessions of current celebrities would be any different in the past for similar reasons.

I would question how valid some of these assumptions are. They seem logical, but our modern world-view assumptions may not hold for the type of people Jesus would have been hanging around with.

I would ask a couple of follow up questions.

How many artifacts do we have from roughly this time period that we can link to a particular person from that period?

For those artifacts that can be so linked, what are the characteristics of the group of individuals to whom they are linked?

Do we have any artifacts, for example, that can be directly linked to Pontius Pilate, Herod, Antiochus, St. Augustine, etc.?

We do purportedly have artifacts linked to the Apostle Peter. St. Peter's Cathedral is erected over the site where he is believed to have been buried, and if I recall correctly, the actual small shrine that had been erected there in early Christian times has been uncovered and is down in the bowels of the cathedral. How sure scholars are of the genuineness of the shrine I would have to check.

[QED]

I see I'm meeting with some resistance here, so I won't push it much further I agree that 2000 years is a challenge for the survival of anything and even the personal artefacts of the most outstanding leaders of humanity are a very rare thing (although not unheard of) - but these were all mere mortals who nearly always fell from favour soon after they were gone. But God? C'mon

[Nick Hallandale]

His father was a carpenter.
Matthew 13:55
55Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

But Jesus was also a carpenter.
Mark 6:3
3Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

From the similarity of the verses, you can see that each Gospel writer told the story his own way. Perhaps one was being sloppy with the facts, but perhaps Jesus and Joseph were both carpenters.

But Jesus soon found a better way to make a living.
Matthew 27:55
55And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
He got women to take care of him.
Luke 8:1-3
1And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,

2And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

3And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Notice it says women that """'ministered unto him of their substance."""

What a racket? Getting women to pay his way.

Hallandale