Are atheists nobler than christians?

[ShieldAxe]

If an atheist and a christian perform the same exact good deed, is not the atheist more noble in his actions? The christian has a heavenly reward as motivation. The atheist doesn't. The christian's deed is cheapened by the selfish motivation. The atheist's deed is more selfless. (All other conditions being equal).

[Bugmaster]

If an atheist and a christian perform the same exact good deed, is not the atheist more noble in his actions? The christian has a heavenly reward as motivation. The atheist doesn't. The christian's deed is cheapened by the selfish motivation. The atheist's deed is more selfless. (All other conditions being equal).

Not really... People do good deeds because it makes them feel good. Both Christians and atheists. It's wired into our personalities from an early age -- and that's a good thing, too, otherwise our society wouldn't be nearly as strong.

[Every7Seconds]

If an atheist and a christian perform the same exact good deed, is not the atheist more noble in his actions? The christian has a heavenly reward as motivation. The atheist doesn't. The christian's deed is cheapened by the selfish motivation. The atheist's deed is more selfless. (All other conditions being equal).

By what standard are you measuring nobility? Who decides who is more noble? Certainly not God according to the athiest.

[harvey1]

If an atheist and a christian perform the same exact good deed, is not the atheist more noble in his actions? The christian has a heavenly reward as motivation. The atheist doesn't. The christian's deed is cheapened by the selfish motivation. The atheist's deed is more selfless. (All other conditions being equal).

Well, the atheist could be doing good deeds for any number of reasons. The question, though, is why would an atheist feel the need to help others out if they truly believed that we are all dust existing in an infinitesimal period of time where everything that happens is ultimately meaningless?

[Bugmaster]

The question, though, is why would an atheist feel the need to help others out if they truly believed that we are all dust existing in an infinitesimal period of time where everything that happens is ultimately meaningless?

That's kind of a weird way to look at things; I haven't met any people -- religious or not -- that saw things this way. After all, Christians are also nothing but dust before the face of God (in fact, God loves to rub that in), but they still care about puppies, flowers, and each other.

Just because the Universe is vast and darl, doesn't mean that we should ignore local, small things (such as humans and puppies) that are right here under our noses.

[harvey1]

Just because the Universe is vast and darl, doesn't mean that we should ignore local, small things (such as humans and puppies) that are right here under our noses.

Well, as a theist, I believe there is a purpose to life even though all the material amounts to dust. Dust is important, ontically speaking. On the converse side, why are local, small things important if everything is ultimately meaningless, ontically speaking?

[Bugmaster]

why are local, small things important if everything is ultimately meaningless, ontically speaking?

Because I am a local, small thing. I'm important to me, and I can use this perspective to realize that other small things are important to other people. Yes, there's no external, deep meaning to the Universe, but I only care about me (and, by association, people I care about), not the Universe at large.

I guess the difference here is that Christians see themselves as part of the larger scheme of things; they are small cogs in a giant machine, not merely small creatures making their own way through life. There's a certain amount of comfort in that, I suppose, but on a purely emotional level that kind of thing just doesn't appeal to me.

Note that I am very well aware that the emotional level doesn't mean squat, ontologically -- but we're talking about the meaning of life here, so it seemed appropriate.

[harvey1]

Because I am a local, small thing. I'm important to me, and I can use this perspective to realize that other small things are important to other people. Yes, there's no external, deep meaning to the Universe, but I only care about me (and, by association, people I care about), not the Universe at large.

Understandable. However, look at this way. Let's say that someone becomes consumed in picking up small twigs off the ground. When asked why they care so much about picking up so many twigs when it is a meaningless exercise having no value other than what is apparent to their own local interests, they answer back saying that it is important to them and they can easily imagine that picking up small twigs in such a compulsive fashion should be important to other people too.

Obviously, that answer only begs the question. Why is picking up small twigs important to them given the meaninglessness in the exercise? I could understand that picking up small twigs was important if they were achieving something of value in doing so (e.g., going for the Guiness book of records...), but it really is a meaningless exercise, is it not?

If atheism is correct, then everything great and small is meaningless. We can put our own value in the exercise, but then this situation is not much different than the poor chap who is consumed with picking up small twigs every second of the day. Of course, we might enjoy our little meaningless compulsion, but if the fun ever stops (which it always does sooner or later) then it seems that one can stop picking up small twigs (or, in the case of atheists, "pull the plug" at any point where the present isn't so kind).

[palmera]

You're assuming that atheists believe life is meaningless which is not always the case. Atheism is not the same a nihilism. Morals, principles, maxims, all may serve to guide regardless of whether one believes in God or not.

Also, one cannot assume that because a theist does something good it is necessarily because he/she believes to be rewarded in the afterlife. In such a case, the actions are certainly driven in some part out of selfish motivations, in which case the atheist, assuming she/he is acting altruistically alone, is the more noble.

Then again, what defines noble actions? Mentioned before, it's a good point and one that should be attended to. "Noble" is a construct of the human social animal which is not dependent on a God for its worth or existence, but on those who adhere to a belief that in order for society to work, certain principles must guide the actions of those within the community. Nobility is a useful tool for instilling altruistic purpose through action. Noble action, I argue, strives to attain harmony through altruistic means and is thus lessened if motivated by self reward.

[harvey1]

You're assuming that atheists believe life is meaningless which is not always the case.

What do you mean by "meaning"? When I say the atheist view of the universe lacks ultimate meaning, I mean that there is no purpose or intent to the universe for one to grasp beyond the fact that it exists. That is, it's random data. For example, if a monkey typed on a computer the printed page would be meaningless. There wouldn't be anything you or I could read to understand what the monkey intended by the particular keystrokes that were selected when its finger hit the key. The data on the page should be considered for all practical purposes as random data. Non-meaningful. Without intent. Ultimately meaningless. The only really useful information is that the monkey typed it, and that's why it is meaningless.

If there were an infinite number of universes, and if in each universe a monkey typed a manuscript, perhaps in one of those worlds the monkey would have typed Hamlet. If so, it is still meaningless content since the monkey didn't intend to type Hamlet, it was a pure coincidence--a random consequence of there being an infinite number of universes with monkeys typing away.

So, this is why I say that an atheist view is ultimately meaningless. Since an atheist believes there is no intent to the universe's existence (i.e., no mind behind it all), the world is ultimately meaningless. All of our actions, small and great, are actually less meaningful than the "words" typed by a monkey typing happily away.