A thorough study of the entire Bible-Thread 1.

[DiscipleOfTruth]

Introduction:

Hello, so this was something that I've been wanting to do for a very long time now with all religious books and I finally found the motivation to go ahead with it. I'd like for us to present our own interpretations of the entire Bible. I have decided to do so by presenting each and every chapter from all the books for discussion, notes, and interpretations to hopefully increase our own understanding of it while acknowledging the differences of others Biblical perception. So all are welcome to join in and give their input, for if anyone holds back it actually hinders the purpose of this thread.

This will be a series of threads and this will take a very long time to complete even though the Bible is a book that one could probably always go back to and learn something that may of been missed when reading it before. Do to my life being a bit unpredictable I can't estimate a time frame of when we will get from Genesis to Revelation or promise that there won't be any long pauses in progress. It's safe to assume that this can take years. To keep this organized and convenient for all readers regardless of when they join in on this project of mines I'd like to ask a few things:

1.Feel free to go on to the next chapter for discussion at any time but please make sure to use the subject heading or first few sentences to give the main idea of your post. Only so I can later edit a post for cross references i.e. someone says something about chaper 28 that leads to a better understanding of chapter one. Or even references between different books of the Bible.

2.If someone has an interpretation that contradicts your own you may want to correct them with yours. If an agreement can't be made after a short discussion please take the debate to a new thread so that this one doesn't get derailed. Even if we all didn't debate anything the threads are going to be really long. Hopefully if the time limit to edit posts is removed I can update a list of references to all readers.

3.Some parts of these threads can seem stupid, boring, where as we will find ourselves going over very simple chapters that seem to not need any review. Or some of us may feel that our thoughts on something isn't important or relevent enough. Please resist such an urge and present your thoughts. I'd prefer that we didn't overlook anything as it might support a powerful reference later.

4.Please try to be descriptive if you use any references from parts of the Bible we haven't got to yet so I can update the list of references easier.

5.Please try to not to take what others believe personally. There seems to be no end to what the Bible can says to any reader.




Table of Contents:

Chapter 1..................................page 1
Chapter 2..................................page 1
Chapter 3..................................page 2
Chapter 4..................................page 2

Debates for this thread:

On the nakedness and the Devil being a snake as literal or not, as well as looking to see if there's a way to commonly interpret scripture as literal or figurative.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 990#562990

References:

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=23345

[DiscipleOfTruth]

Just to confirm what I believe that you're saying, you're saying that the nakedness of A&E was figurative and that the snake wasn't the Devil?

I've always believed that the story was saying that the Devil was possessing the snake.

[marketandchurch]

Just to confirm what I believe that you're saying, you're saying that the nakedness of A&E was figurative and that the snake wasn't the Devil?

I've always believed that the story was saying that the Devil was possessing the snake.

In the old testament, Satan means "to oppose." This same entity is also sent to Job, "to oppose" God, as to illustrate the nature of God. Job, is also an allegory, like Noah, and Adam & Eve. Or at least most traditions have held that to be so.

The New Testament is what gives satan his nature, and fleshes satan out in full. But the old testament does not believe in any supernatural thing exiting beyond God. It is not dualistic like some eastern philosophies, and the moment that any supernatural entity can exist beyond God, then Satan, a supernatural, is also a legitimate God, even if he is weaker then God, or what have you. And as soon as you have two Gods, you have two sources of morality, and polytheism... That is why we're careful in defining angels, and even the character in the story of Job, and any time the divine interacts with humans, because the one-ness of God is crucial. It is also the reason Jews cannot believe in Jesus, because that undo's a major message of the text, saying that the supernatural and the natural cannot merge, mix, mate, or reproduce.

In any event, the purpose of the snake, as the original tradition understood it, was to send a clear shot at the pagans, one that would have shaken up any pagan reading this, 3000 years ago.

[DiscipleOfTruth]

Thank you for sharing your beliefs, I've never heard a jewish interpretation before. I look forward to hearing how much our beliefs of the Bible differ as we progress

[DiscipleOfTruth]

Genesis 3
New International Version (NIV)
The Fall

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?�

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’�

4 “You will not certainly die,� the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.�

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?�

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.�

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?�

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.�

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?�

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.�

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.�
16 To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.�
17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.�
20 Adam[c] named his wife Eve,[d] because she would become the mother of all the living.

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.� 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Footnotes:

Genesis 3:15 Or seed
Genesis 3:15 Or strike
Genesis 3:20 Or The man
Genesis 3:20 Eve probably means living.
Genesis 3:24 Or placed in front

(From Biblegateway.com. Please feel free to present the same chapter from a different version at any time. Feel free to talk about chapters that have been presented previously regardless of whichever chapters we progress to, the Table of Contents will reflect all references.)

[ttruscott]

Just to confirm what I believe that you're saying, you're saying that the nakedness of A&E was figurative and that the snake wasn't the Devil?

I've always believed that the story was saying that the Devil was possessing the snake.

Not at all - I'm saying they were actual people in an actual situation with spiritually symbolic meanings. Type and anti-type. Using real people, times and situations to make prophecy and point out spiritual truths.

All I know about the serpent is he arrived after Adam and played the role of mentor to Eve to keep her enslaved in sin so the judgment would continue to be postponed. What this demon's name actually was or what level in the hierachy he had, who cares?

Peace, Ted

[puddleglum]

Your question exposes the fallacy that nakedness refers to their being unclothed.

You have proved that nakedness can mean other things besides being unclothed but if you look at how Adam and Eve responded when they realized they had sinned it is obvious that in their case it meant they weren't wearing clothes.

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
(Genesis 3:7 ESV)

[ttruscott]

Your question exposes the fallacy that nakedness refers to their being unclothed.

You have proved that nakedness can mean other things besides being unclothed but if you look at how Adam and Eve responded when they realized they had sinned it is obvious that in their case it meant they weren't wearing clothes.

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
(Genesis 3:7 ESV)

FIRST: IF you are saying that "their eyes were opened" refers to the fact that because they sinned they were immediately convicted of their sin and sought a way to get back right with GOD by use of the fig leaves...

then remember that is the opposite of all the scripture about the effects of sin on our natures and this is the only time in the bible whereby sin has convicted anybody of their guilt without the intervention of the Holy Spirit and moved them to seek GOD's forgiveness by works.... an interpretation I find to be contrary to all the scriptures about the nature of sin.

So what were their eyes opened too? A new sin (rejected for the stated reasons) or the understanding that their free will choices in sheol pre-garden did indeed make them sinners unable to discern spiritual truths such as the difference between good pastors and evil (the serpent)?

IF they were already sinners as the words suggest, their eyes being opened would refer to their acceptance of the fact that they were indeed sinners since one of the main characteristics of being enslaved by sin is to deny it, until GOD's predestined life brings you face to face with the truth of your guilt and you start to seek (however wrongly) repentance and righteousness.

Now, if GOD created her spiritually blind, that is, in such a way that she would be very prone to looking on the serpent as her friend, and HE refused or neglected to warn her of satan'sss nature, viz., of the incredible danger she would be in if she listened to him, how can we say that GOD loved her or did everything without fault? Especially in light of the doctrine of predestination, right? But knowing the fault cannot be with GOD, it must be in this understanding of what was happening in the garden.

One would think that if HE had any love in HIM, HE would have warned her about the snake, HE doing everything perfectly and she being so "blind, naive, innocent and undefiled," right?

Of course, if she was already defiled and blinded by her unwillingness to believe GOD's word about HIS enemies and by her friendliness towards them, then GOD just might have put her in HIS earthly garden and allowed the serpent to beguile her into eating her way out of it, without warning her of his evil intentions,

so that she would learn of the snake's true character through this nasty experience (since she was unwilling to believe HIM about HIS enemies) so that, the next time HE called for a judgement against all of HIS enemies, she for one, would be willing to believe HIM that such a judgement was absolutely necessary for a peaceful life in Eden (having found that out by her experience) and not be beguiled out of that judgement (peaceful life) again.

This is the exact same lesson we find in the parable of the wheat and the tares:
GOD's people (sown by HIM) liable to the judgment (liable to being uprooted with the tares, that is, sinners themselves) must live with them (together with the serpent in the garden) until they forgo their friendships / idolatry with the tares (Matthew 10:36 ...a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.') having learned of their evil by experience and so reject them thereby learning to choose holiness (no more liable to judgment) by the grace of GOD.

The tares are children of the evil one sown into the world by their father the devil just as Adam and Eve are sinful elect sown into the world by GOD to live with the tares so as to learn to reject idolatry of the tares and believe GOD that they must be destroyed. Since it is obvious that the maturity (ie holiness) of the wheat is the end of the tares, it is obvious that the devil sows his tares into the world, our families and the church to keep the wheat defiled, in love with the tares he knows and addicted to his sins.

Eve learned her lesson quite quickly, how long will it take us?

Peace, Ted

[mitty]

[Replying to post 2 by DiscipleOfTruth] The first version of the creation story says "And God said. Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..........So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female he created them" (Gen 1:26-7). Obviously there were at least two gods involved in the Genesis 1 version including the male creating god who performed the magic and wand waving and in whose image a male person was created, and presumably a female god in whose image a female person was created. Was the goddess Yahveh's consort, Asherah, or another goddess such as Aphrodite?

[DiscipleOfTruth]

I was under the impression that the god and goddess combo was more so a wiccan thing.

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.

I wonder how these skins were made exactly. If they were made out of nothing or if God had killed two animals?

[DiscipleOfTruth]

<< Genesis 4 >>
New International Version

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Cain and Abel

1Adama made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.b She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forthc a man.� 2Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.�

8Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.�d While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

9Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?�

“I don’t know,� he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?�

10The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.�

13Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.�

15But the Lord said to him, “Not soe ; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.� Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,f east of Eden.

17Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

19Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. 20Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. 21His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. 22Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out ofg bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.

23Lamech said to his wives,

“Adah and Zillah, listen to me;

wives of Lamech, hear my words.

I have killed a man for wounding me,

a young man for injuring me.

24If Cain is avenged seven times,

then Lamech seventy-seven times.�

25Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth,h saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.� 26Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh.

At that time people began to call oni the name of the Lord.


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<< Genesis 4 >>

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Footnotes:
a 1 Or The man
b 1 Cain sounds like the Hebrew for brought forth or acquired.
c 1 Or have acquired
d 8 Samaritan Pentateuch, Septuagint, Vulgate and Syriac; Masoretic Text does not have “Let’s go out to the field.�
e 15 Septuagint, Vulgate and Syriac; Hebrew Very well
f 16 Nod means wandering (see verses 12 and 14).
g 22 Or who instructed all who work in
h 25 Seth probably means granted.
i 26 Or to proclaim

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New International Version (NIV)

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