72 virgins

[Iam]

Can anybody claim to think it would be heaven to be "given" 72 purpose built automaton virgins who revert to virginhood after sex? Can any sane person possibly consider that heaven?
(I hope I haven't broken rules)

[Burninglight]

@ Burninglight

What is the logic of this? Why doesn't Allah allow it now as well?

Burninglight unlike Christianity, Islam does not believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) died for our  sins. Therefore we cannot do what we want when we want. God has made certain things unlawful to us out of His Great Wisdom and Great Knowledge. Therefore everything that is not allowed is for our own benefit. Hence God will reward those that believed in the final Prophet and Messenger (peace be upon him) and believed in the true religion and his message with the best reward ie. Paradise eternal life and bliss. 

Im sure there are many things that are not allowed within your own scriptures also that are reserved solely for Paradise alone. 

You see that is the thing Hali. You have grave misconceptions of Biblical Christianity. I am not talking about Mormonism, Catholicism or Jehovah Witnesses. I am speaking of believers without a religion and followers of Jesus Christ who was the Jew behind the rock the Quran tells you to kill, IMO.

The difference between us is you have religion, and I have a relationship with God though Christ.
You are a slave of your religion and I am free in my relationship with God which is born out of the free from the seed of Isaac, but Ishmael is from the seed of a slave woman Hagar.

Your misconception is thinking we are free to live in sin, but nothing could be further from the truth. Our freedom is the freedom to do what is right and pleasing to God and that is exactly what the Bible promotes. Moreover, it is the Holy Spirit in our lives that helps us live God's will and who puts in us the will to do of His good pleasure.

Islam has borrowed from the Jews and Christians. For instance, the virgin birth they got from the Christians and even the concept of heaven and hell. They borrowed monotheism from the Jews and the Christians. If I can accomplish straightening out your misconceptions of Biblical Christianity, we would be getting somewhere.

Don't feel bad, Allah and Muhammad had grave misconception about Christianity as well especially about the trinity. Allah asked Jesus, "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me" This verse is obviously a response to Christianity, and it shows misconceptions that can be easily inferred from the question. (Mary was never a part of the three that Allah said "say not three" for one, and she was never considered a god by Christians) Only Catholics considered Mary to be the Mother of God (Jesus), but never God.

I know Mary was the biological mother of Jesus, but Allah never mention the Holy Spirit as being the third person of the trinity. Muhammad said He was Gabriel. You can tell a lot about people by the questions they ask as well or the comments they make.

[Burninglight]

I meant in the hadith

[HaLi8993]

@ Ooberman

Seeing a Muslim and Christian debate, or a Mormon and Christian always make me positive there is no value in religion, and no God.

Why is this Ooberman??, there is a different between truth and falsehood

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

You see that is the thing Hali. You have grave misconceptions of Biblical Christianity. I am not talking about Mormonism, Catholicism or Jehovah Witnesses. I am speaking of believers without a religion and followers of Jesus Christ who was the Jew behind the rock the Quran tells you to kill, IMO. 

The difference between us is you have religion, and I have a relationship with God though Christ. 
You are a slave of your religion and I am free in my relationship with God which is born out of the free from the seed of Isaac, but Ishmael is from the seed of a slave woman Hagar. 

Your misconception is thinking we are free to live in sin, but nothing could be further from the truth. Our freedom is the freedom to do what is right and pleasing to God and that is exactly what the Bible promotes. Moreover, it is the Holy Spirit in our lives that helps us live God's will and who puts in us the will to do of His good pleasure. 

Islam has borrowed from the Jews and Christians. For instance, the virgin birth they got from the Christians and even the concept of heaven and hell. They borrowed monotheism from the Jews and the Christians. If I can accomplish straightening out your misconceptions of Biblical Christianity, we would be getting somewhere. 

Don't feel bad, Allah and Muhammad had grave misconception about Christianity as well especially about the trinity. Allah asked Jesus, "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me" This verse is obviously a response to Christianity, and it shows misconceptions that can be easily inferred from the question. (Mary was never a part of the three that Allah said "say not three" for one, and she was never considered a god by Christians) Only Catholics considered Mary to be the Mother of God (Jesus), but never God. Allah never mention the Holy Spirit as being the third person of the trinity. Muhammad said He was Gabriel. You can tell a lot about people by the questions they ask as well or the comments they make.

Islam represents the ideal relationship with God, as we follow and adhere to what God really wants from us. It is important to have the right relationship with God and not invent things that God has not permitted nor commanded, including denying what Jesus (peace be upon him) came with. God does not need you to go through Jesus (peace be upon him) to get to him, rather He wants you not to associate partners with Him and to ask Him directly.

We are slaves of God, not the slaves of man, in which Christianity has become, as they have abandoned their own scriptures by changing them to suit the norms of society, this is not how things work. You are correct Christians have become free to do as they wish hiding behind the idea that Jesus (peace be upon him) died for their sins, ignoring that Jesus (peace be upon him) in your own scriptures has prescribed the adherence to the laws of the old testament something Christians have forsaken. 

Burninglight the Arabs have right as the legitimate seed of Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him). The bibke, as well as historical sources clearly show the  injustice perpetrated against the children of Ishmael, throughout history by both Christians and Jews. Both parties have deliberately distorted history and Biblical scripture in order to hide the legitimacy of Prophet Ishmael (peace be upon him) as the first born son of Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) as well as his rights as the first born son which is supported by the very bible of the Christians and the Jews, all for the purpose of their own pro-Zionist ideals. Let us all use reasoning and common sense and pursue this matter with an open mind free of hate and prejudice, if you are interested I'm always up for discussion.

The truth of the matter is you are living in sin, as it is not pleasing to God what Christians have denied of the truth and what they blaspheme about God and his Prophet (peace be upon him) and His religion without any evidence for what they say or believe. How can the holy spirit help you live God's will when Christians believe that the holy spirit is God??

You are forgetting that the original Torah and Gospel were from God, the very same God that also revealed the Quran, so of course what is said about the virgin birth and the concept of heaven and hell will be supported by the Quran, the Quran is a confirmation of past and present. Burninglight it's time you realize that Christianity cannot straighten out the many contradictions and errors within the bibles let alone convince people it is the truth.

I think the one that is creating a misconception is you Burninglight. The verse you are talking about is this:

QURAN: 5:116

"And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen."

If we refer back to the Tafsir of this verse it is very clear that Jesus (peace be upon him) rejects shirk and affirms Tawhid (the oneness of Allah). Allah will also speak to His servant and Messenger, Jesus (peace be upon him) son of Maryam, saying to him on the Day of Resurrection in the presence of those who worshipped Jesus (peace be upon him) and his mother as gods besides Allah, nothing escapes the knowledge of Allah.

You question why the Quran 5:116 criticizes them for worshipping Mary as a god ok well lets read the official rosary of the Catholic Church:

"Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness, and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve! To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this, our exile, show us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!" 

Sorry, this is not use of icons or statutes which Christians also do in worshipping Mary as God which is disallowed but we still see happening, but  this is to "assist" worship, hence a pagan prayer to other than Allah which is disallowed according to your own scriptures. Therefore the Quran is not wrong in saying that Mary is taken as God. It may be true that some Christians today do not worship Mary but many heretical Christians throughout history had done so.

[Burninglight]

@ Burninglight

You see that is the thing Hali. You have grave misconceptions of Biblical Christianity. I am not talking about Mormonism, Catholicism or Jehovah Witnesses. I am speaking of believers without a religion and followers of Jesus Christ who was the Jew behind the rock the Quran tells you to kill, IMO. 

The difference between us is you have religion, and I have a relationship with God though Christ. 
You are a slave of your religion and I am free in my relationship with God which is born out of the free from the seed of Isaac, but Ishmael is from the seed of a slave woman Hagar. 

Your misconception is thinking we are free to live in sin, but nothing could be further from the truth. Our freedom is the freedom to do what is right and pleasing to God and that is exactly what the Bible promotes. Moreover, it is the Holy Spirit in our lives that helps us live God's will and who puts in us the will to do of His good pleasure. 

Islam has borrowed from the Jews and Christians. For instance, the virgin birth they got from the Christians and even the concept of heaven and hell. They borrowed monotheism from the Jews and the Christians. If I can accomplish straightening out your misconceptions of Biblical Christianity, we would be getting somewhere. 

Don't feel bad, Allah and Muhammad had grave misconception about Christianity as well especially about the trinity. Allah asked Jesus, "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me" This verse is obviously a response to Christianity, and it shows misconceptions that can be easily inferred from the question. (Mary was never a part of the three that Allah said "say not three" for one, and she was never considered a god by Christians) Only Catholics considered Mary to be the Mother of God (Jesus), but never God. Allah never mention the Holy Spirit as being the third person of the trinity. Muhammad said He was Gabriel. You can tell a lot about people by the questions they ask as well or the comments they make.

Islam represents the ideal relationship with God, as we follow and adhere to what God really wants from us. It is important to have the right relationship with God and not invent things that God has not permitted nor commanded, including denying what Jesus (peace be upon him) came with. God does not need you to go through Jesus (peace be upon him) to get to him, rather He wants you not to associate partners with Him and to ask Him directly.

We are slaves of God, not the slaves of man, in which Christianity has become, as they have abandoned their own scriptures by changing them to suit the norms of society, this is not how things work. You are correct Christians have become free to do as they wish hiding behind the idea that Jesus (peace be upon him) died for their sins, ignoring that Jesus (peace be upon him) in your own scriptures has prescribed the adherence to the laws of the old testament something Christians have forsaken. 

Burninglight the Arabs have right as the legitimate seed of Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him). The bibke, as well as historical sources clearly show the  injustice perpetrated against the children of Ishmael, throughout history by both Christians and Jews. Both parties have deliberately distorted history and Biblical scripture in order to hide the legitimacy of Prophet Ishmael (peace be upon him) as the first born son of Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) as well as his rights as the first born son which is supported by the very bible of the Christians and the Jews, all for the purpose of their own pro-Zionist ideals. Let us all use reasoning and common sense and pursue this matter with an open mind free of hate and prejudice, if you are interested I'm always up for discussion.

The truth of the matter is you are living in sin, as it is not pleasing to God what Christians have denied of the truth and what they blaspheme about God and his Prophet (peace be upon him) and His religion without any evidence for what they say or believe. How can the holy spirit help you live God's will when Christians believe that the holy spirit is God??

You are forgetting that the original Torah and Gospel were from God, the very same God that also revealed the Quran, so of course what is said about the virgin birth and the concept of heaven and hell will be supported by the Quran, the Quran is a confirmation of past and present. Burninglight it's time you realize that Christianity cannot straighten out the many contradictions and errors within the bibles let alone convince people it is the truth.

I think the one that is creating a misconception is you Burninglight. The verse you are talking about is this:

QURAN: 5:116

"And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen."

If we refer back to the Tafsir of this verse it is very clear that Jesus (peace be upon him) rejects shirk and affirms Tawhid (the oneness of Allah). Allah will also speak to His servant and Messenger, Jesus (peace be upon him) son of Maryam, saying to him on the Day of Resurrection in the presence of those who worshipped Jesus (peace be upon him) and his mother as gods besides Allah, nothing escapes the knowledge of Allah.

You question why the Quran 5:116 criticizes them for worshipping Mary as a god ok well lets read the official rosary of the Catholic Church:

"Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness, and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve! To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this, our exile, show us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!" 

Sorry, this is not use of icons or statutes which Christians also do in worshipping Mary as God which is disallowed but we still see happening, but  this is to "assist" worship, hence a pagan prayer to other than Allah which is disallowed according to your own scriptures. Therefore the Quran is not wrong in saying that Mary is taken as God. It may be true that some Christians today do not worship Mary but many heretical Christians throughout history had done so.

As I mentioned Hali, Islam is a response to Catholicism and not Biblical Christianity, but Islam still has misconception of Catholicism because Catholics never considered Mary a part of the trinity. So the blaring misconceptions in the Quran remains not only about Catholicism but more importantly true Biblical Christianity. Muslims today still have grave misconception of Christianity because of Muhammad's understanding of it.

FYI, the icons or statutes which Roman Catholics use in worshipping Mary as the mother of God (the son of God Jesus) not as God the father is also disallowed in the Biblical Christianity; that is why I left the Catholic Church, and yes, we still see happening with them, to "assist" them in worship, hence a pagan prayer to other than God. I agree. So Islam is a religion that is a reaction to Catholicism, but as mentioned, it didn’t even understand the Catholicism. I understand it, and I can see paganism, but I am not a slave of religion; therefore, I was free to choose Christ when God led me to Him.
I told you the freedom we have is not to do what we want, but to do His (God's) will and His spirit helps us. You missed that part of what I said. You are so focused on what you want to say that you miss the mark and context of what is being said.

You shared Quran 5: 116. There is no misconception on my part. Allah didn’t question Jesus about worship but about making Mary a diety, and if a deity, she would have to be one of the three he said to desist from doing and saying. Christians don’t have a trinity such as describe by Allah nor do the Catholics.

You and I agree only God should be worship and not Mary, but My point is Mary is not one of the gods in the trinity as Allah alludes to. That is a discrepancy of major portions to me. So let’s look more carefully. Allah asks "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'"

If I know Jesus would never say such a thing, shouldn’t Allah (all knowing) have known? How could he have asked Jesus such a question; unless, the question was only a reaction to the religion of Catholicism and not true Biblical Christianity which also prohibits the worship of Mary? So why did Allah ask this question? Is it he didn’t trust Jesus, didn’t know the answer or was he testing Jesus? There is no logic here except what I mentioned above. I cannot respect this discrepancy in the Quran.

Finally, you are forgetting that the original Torah says nothing about Jesus being born of a virgin, and the only Gospel it is in is in Matthew. The very same God that also revealed Torah couldn’t have revealed the Quran, because the Quran goes against the facts written in it. God doesn’t contradict Himself. The Torah said no prophets come out of Ishmael born of a slave woman Hagar.

You say “so of course what is said about the virgin birth and the concept of heaven and hell will be supported by the Quran, the Quran is a confirmation of past and present.� This comment of yours shows ignorance, there is no of course about it Hali, The concept of the virgin birth is not mention in the OT as pertaining to Jesus. The gospel of Mathew makes that clear; moreover, there is no concept of heaven and hell in the OT either the gospel makes that clear as well.
Additionally there was never a gospel given to Jesus; Jesus is the gospel. You say: “Burninglight it's time you realize that Christianity cannot straighten out the many contradictions and errors within the bibles let alone convince people it is the truth.� But that can be said about the Islam and gets us nowhere. Stick to the facts and not such opinions of yours. PBUY from me brother of humanity

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

As I mentioned Hali, Islam is a response to Catholicism and not Biblical Christianity, but Islam still has misconception of Catholicism because Catholics never considered Mary a part of the trinity. So the blaring misconceptions in the Quran remains not only about Catholicism but more importantly true Biblical Christianity. Muslims today still have grave misconception of Christianity because of Muhammad's understanding of it. 

FYI, the icons or statutes which Roman Catholics use in worshipping Mary as the mother of God (the son of God Jesus) not as God the father is also disallowed in the Biblical Christianity; that is why I left the Catholic Church, and yes, we still see happening with them, to "assist" them in worship, hence a pagan prayer to other than God. I agree. So Islam is a religion that is a reaction to Catholicism, but as mentioned, it didn’t even understand the Catholicism. I understand it, and I can see paganism, but I am not a slave of religion; therefore, I was free to choose Christ when God led me to Him. 
I told you the freedom we have is not to do what we want, but to do His (God's) will and His spirit helps us. You missed that part of what I said. You are so focused on what you want to say that you miss the mark and context of what is being said. 

You shared Quran 5: 116. There is no misconception on my part. Allah didn’t question Jesus about worship but about making Mary a diety, and if a deity, she would have to be one of the three he said to desist from doing and saying. Christians don’t have a trinity such as describe by Allah nor do the Catholics. 

You and I agree only God should be worship and not Mary, but My point is Mary is not one of the gods in the trinity as Allah alludes to. That is a discrepancy of major portions to me. So let’s look more carefully. Allah asks "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" 

If I know Jesus would never say such a thing, shouldn’t Allah (all knowing) have known? How could he have asked Jesus such a question; unless, the question was only a reaction to the religion of Catholicism and not true Biblical Christianity which also prohibits the worship of Mary? So why did Allah ask this question? Is it he didn’t trust Jesus, didn’t know the answer or was he testing Jesus? There is no logic here except what I mentioned above. I cannot respect this discrepancy in the Quran. 

Finally, you are forgetting that the original Torah says nothing about Jesus being born of a virgin, and the only Gospel it is in is in Matthew. The very same God that also revealed Torah couldn’t have revealed the Quran, because the Quran goes against the facts written in it. God doesn’t contradict Himself. The Torah said no prophets come out of Ishmael born of a slave woman Hagar. 

You say “so of course what is said about the virgin birth and the concept of heaven and hell will be supported by the Quran, the Quran is a confirmation of past and present.� This comment of yours shows ignorance, there is no of course about it Hali, The concept of the virgin birth is not mention in the OT as pertaining to Jesus. The gospel of Mathew makes that clear; moreover, there is no concept of heaven and hell in the OT either the gospel makes that clear as well. 
Additionally there was never a gospel given to Jesus; Jesus is the gospel. You say: “Burninglight it's time you realize that Christianity cannot straighten out the many contradictions and errors within the bibles let alone convince people it is the truth.� But that can be said about the Islam and gets us nowhere. Stick to the facts and not such opinions of yours. PBUY from me brother of humanity

No contradictions  or misconceptions in that verse Burninglight!!!. God is not dealing with the concept of the trinity in that verse rather he is dealing with what Jesus (peace be upon him) will proclaim on the day of judgement as explained, he will testify that he did not advise or teach the worship of himself or Mary as Christians do today, rather he came to teach the people the worship of God and Monotheism. It is your own misconception that God does not know the truth.

If then you are in agreement that Catholics worship Mary in the name of Christianity then can you explain to me how the Quran is wrong when God addresses all people. The fact that Christians (Catholics and Non-Catholics) dare to make images and portraits of Allah All-Mighty Himself, along with images of Angels, Jesus (peace be upon him), Mary is proof enough that Christians have erred from what is lawful and unlawful.The fact of the matter is God is All-Knowing about the different denominations within Christianity and knows full well of their worship and belief. You claim you have freedom to follow God's will if this where so you would be following the true teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him) and would be a Muslim and would be following the laws of the Old Testament, as Jesus (peace be upon him) honored the Old Testament's laws and ordered his followers to follow the Old Testament until the day of Judgment:

Matthew 5:17-18

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished"

So what Christians mean when they say freedom and not being a slave of God is that they are free to do as they wish as it is clear they do not adhere to the commands of God.

As for the Quranic verse 5:116, This claim that the Quran doesn't understand the Trinity, that the Quran's understanding of the Trinity is wrong, and ignorant is wrong. You will not find anywhere in Islam that makes the claim that Islam believed that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a member of the Trinity. For instance the verse you are quoting is in fact about the worship of Jesus (peace be upon him) and Mary not about the Trinity. It clearly says:

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden"
 
So from this verse you assert that the Quran did not know what the Trinity was, as Mary is not in the Trinity, hence the Quran was wrong. For starters the Christians themselves have committed the mistake, not the Quran, if anyone reads Surah 5:116 (the above quoted verse) they will see that the verse says NOTHING about a Trinity. So I need ask you Burniglight from where do you assert that this verse is mentioning the Trinity? You have simply read what is not there.

In fact in the very same Surah, in passage 73, the Quran does mention the Trinity:

QURAN 5:73

"They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them"

So your wrong again the Quran does mention the Trinity and the fact that in this verse it says nothing about Mary being included in the Trinity is a proof that Islam does not consider Mary as part of the trinity. 

The Quran also says this about the trinity:

QURAN 4:171

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs" 

Therefore again the Quran attacks the Trinity, yet again there is nothing about Mary. So already we can see a problem with the Christian argument, the Quran when it attacks the Trinity it mentions the Trinity quite clearly, and when it does so it says nothing about Mary being involved within the Trinity. Now when the Quran mentions Jesus and Mary being worshiped as gods it never mentions the Trinity at all!

So the burden of proof is now on you to show me where the Quran says anything about Mary being in the Trinity, I have quoted two passages from the Quran which attack the Trinity, and neither of these two passages say that Mary is in the Trinity.

So the Quran attacks both the Trinity, as well as Christians who have wrongly raised Mary to such a high degree that she has become like a god. 

Furthermore Burninglight God is far beyond what you say about Him, He is All-Knowing of everything. The reason why God will ask Jesus (peace be upon him) this question on the day of Resurrection is because people on that day will come and make excuses for their beliefs, and start blaming people for their disobedience, hence God will bring Jesus (peace be upon him) as a witness against those that worshipped him as a testimony against those that believed that Jesus (peace be upon him) taught them their beliefs in which they have gone astray with. God is all Just hence He will not punish people without due justice. 

There is only One God Burninglight and He is the One that sent down the Torah, Gospel and Quran if you wish to discuss how the bible was manipulated by biased writers to unfairly exclude Ishmael, the son of Hagar, then I'm up for this, this would be a lengthy discussion, maybe then you will realize that Christianity is nothing more than the result of innocently mislead people. Biblical scriptures are a proof that Ishmael was part of God's covenant, thereby proving Islam a divine religion. God made an important promise to Abraham before any children were born to him.

Genesis 12:2-3

"And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shall be a blessing. And I will bless them that bless thee, and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." 

How is Jesus (peace be upon him) the Gospel?? Burninglight, there are many similarities between Christians and Muslims, this does not mean the Quran is wrong, it means God is confirming what is right and what is wrong from what Christians and Jews are following today. Islam is the true religion Burninglight it contains all the facts both past and present and is preserved from all forms of contradictions, errors and corruption, what I say is not my opinion rather what God teaches us of His true religion. 

[Allahakbar]

[Replying to post 55 by HaLi8993]

There can be absolutely no doubt that the quran proves that Allah didn't know everything. He didn't even know that Muhammad couldn't read.

[HaLi8993]

@

There can be absolutely no doubt that the quran proves that Allah didn't know everything. He didn't even know that Muhammad couldn't read.

Wrong Again!!!

QURAN 7:157-158

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful"

"Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided."

[Allahakbar]

@

There can be absolutely no doubt that the quran proves that Allah didn't know everything. He didn't even know that Muhammad couldn't read.

Wrong Again!!!

QURAN 7:157-158

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful"

"Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided."

First word spoken to Muhammad.....READ. Allah didn't even know that Muhammad couldn't read! Game over.

[HaLi8993]

@ 

First word spoken to Muhammad.....READ. Allah didn't even know that Muhammad couldn't read! Game over.

Nice Try!! Again this can only come from one has very little knowledge about Islam.

The exact circumstances of this first revelation was when angle Gabriel suddenly appeared before the Prophet (peace be upon him) while in seclusion, he ordered him to "Iqra!" (read, recite, repeat, proclaim). Muhammad (peace be upon him), in his terror thought he was being asked to read, so he stammered: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel again ordered him to "Iqra!" Muhammad (peace be upon him) again replied: "I am unlettered." The angel Gabriel now took a firm hold of him and commanded him "IQRAA IN THE NAME OF ALLAH WHO CREATED!" Now Muhammad (peace be upon him) began to understand that he was not being asked to read, but to recite, to repeat. He began to repeat after him, and Gabriel revealed to him the first verses of the Qur'an, those at the beginning of the chapter of Al-Alak -1-5:

"Read(Iqraa): In the name of your Lord who created, Created man from a clot. Read(Iqraa): And your Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who teaches by the pen, Teaches man that which he knew not."