If God is infinite, then he is everything.... right?

[Ooberman]

If he is infinite, then no theistic opinion about God is wrong, even this statement.

It is likely that this deity doesn't exist, and since an infinite God is contradictory, it is probably less likely to be true. (Assuming basic laws of logic, our common presupposition).

Since, according to these laws of logic to be "True",the statement "God obtains" cannot be true, is true, and is also, possibly a quantum state (some "other").

Therefore, God does not exist.

The point of this line of inquiry, I suppose a purpose of this idea is to mull over the technicalities of how we arrive at basic assumptions about the world.

After all, we can't FIRST assume a God in order to prove a God exists. If we are trying to prove a God exists, we have to tip the balance in minds when they hear the actual logical argument.

The logical leap, to me, begins with both the Materialist and Supernaturalist. We don't REALLY know what things are made of, but if we go from what has been shown to be effective according to a large consensus of people that gravity works, and the natural laws appear to be consistent. The drama of nature, or the narrative of our lives appears to be a fact of our nature, and that's about all we know.

1. We are physical beings in this universe.
2. We can imagine real and unreal things.
3. We create narrative to ourselves and others to explain natural events, yet, the laws of nature cannot be translated accurately in the language of Man, but in the language of basic math.

We don't need to presume a God for any of them, and the Theist has to answer the question: "why is god a better answer for each of them, without presuming naturalism?"

Meanwhile, I don't think anything in the data shows any problem with the laws of nature being inviolable, and the dramas of our lives are the unique state of our Nature: we produce thoughts, narratives, and believe many things in metaphor, colloquialisms, and other tropes.

Tropes, and other games of words, twists of logic and other quirks as Man attempts to reflect Nature. We have at our disposal all the arts, and another quirk to our nature, the ability to imagine supernatural beings as if they are real.

Religion is a "greatest hits from mythology" in that religion (the process of creating a religion - a process unique to man, and neanderthals, apparently, and a few other Great Apes... And a few birds... And maybe elephants...) tries to capture a link to the conscience and codify it.

There are good reasons to do this, if you have some idea of your subjective position on "The Good" and how that fits into the larger scope of society's idea of "The Good". If you want to do Good, you find a reason to do it if it's not considered "Good" by society, increasingly to a point to being a psychopath. (There are ranges of experience that make morality, ultimately, an impossible task to normalize.)


Morality, like sight, is valuable to you, because it's valuable to you. We argue for that value by making our argument appear to have more weight than the converse.

The Theist comes up woefully short when they explain the basis of their provenance of their ideas: tradition.

In other words, the theist must presuppose the very characteristics of their God, in order to prove their God. Whereas, the naturalist only starts with the things we have a pretty good idea is true, through verification.

That cellphones work proves what Aristotle couldn't. Likewise, I doubt many people are going to challenge our model of the Solar System. And, genetics will never be overturned. These are really true things, it appears.

We are the awesomest of Apes, but Apes nonetheless. And that's OK.

[Ooberman]

If he is infinite, then no theistic opinion about God is wrong, even this statement.

Infinity does not necessarily contain every possible reality. The set of even numbers is infinite 2, 4, 6, 8,... but it does not contain any odd numbers.

Also, you cannot say a thing is true and false at the same time.

In what way is God infinite, then? Infinite in the area he is limited to?

[Jacob Simonsky]

[Replying to post 31 by Ooberman]

The common definition of infinite is usually something like some endless progression of time. This is not correct. Infinity is not anything to do with progression of time but rather some existence free of time itself. It, thus, is wholly incompatible with a physical universe.

I think that, perhaps, the "heaven" of scripture is the infinite, non-material existence that is properly labeled "infinite". It certainly cannot be anything to do with the earth.

When we say that God is infinite we are referring to the fact of His existence in a spirit universe, or something by another name, where there is nothing physical. As soon as physical matter is present we have left the realm of the infinite.

This answers the age old dilemma of the mystery of infinity. To me anyway.

[Ooberman]

I think we are talking with two different dictionaries. I take the "something without limits" definition, often used by theists to talk about us as finite beings, but God is an infinite Being. Tillich said, "Being Itself".

[mgb]

If he is infinite, then no theistic opinion about God is wrong, even this statement.

Infinity does not necessarily contain every possible reality. The set of even numbers is infinite 2, 4, 6, 8,... but it does not contain any odd numbers.

Also, you cannot say a thing is true and false at the same time.

In what way is God infinite, then? Infinite in the area he is limited to?

God is all good and that creative goodness is infinite.

[Jacob Simonsky]

If he is infinite, then no theistic opinion about God is wrong, even this statement.

Infinity does not necessarily contain every possible reality. The set of even numbers is infinite 2, 4, 6, 8,... but it does not contain any odd numbers.

Also, you cannot say a thing is true and false at the same time.

In what way is God infinite, then? Infinite in the area he is limited to?

God is all good and that creative goodness is infinite.

When we use the word infinite to describe God it simply means He exists independently of a physical universe.

Before Abraham was I am. This quote refers to the timelessness of God's realm.

Absence of physical dimension and it's resultant time equals infinity.

[Ooberman]

If he is infinite, then no theistic opinion about God is wrong, even this statement.

Infinity does not necessarily contain every possible reality. The set of even numbers is infinite 2, 4, 6, 8,... but it does not contain any odd numbers.

Also, you cannot say a thing is true and false at the same time.

In what way is God infinite, then? Infinite in the area he is limited to?

God is all good and that creative goodness is infinite.

When we use the word infinite to describe God it simply means He exists independently of a physical universe.

Before Abraham was I am. This quote refers to the timelessness of God's realm.

Absence of physical dimension and it's resultant time equals infinity.

Look, I'm a plain talker. I like to use regular words and language to help me understand my world because I am really trying to understand it.

I understand there could be things that exist eternally. For example, the fact that something existed is an eternal fact. The fact that "I am" (me) existed will be a truth though unknown) even after this universe disappears.

It appears "I am" is a reference to our ability to be self-aware, not God.

[Jacob Simonsky]

If he is infinite, then no theistic opinion about God is wrong, even this statement.

Infinity does not necessarily contain every possible reality. The set of even numbers is infinite 2, 4, 6, 8,... but it does not contain any odd numbers.

Also, you cannot say a thing is true and false at the same time.

In what way is God infinite, then? Infinite in the area he is limited to?

God is all good and that creative goodness is infinite.

When we use the word infinite to describe God it simply means He exists independently of a physical universe.

Before Abraham was I am. This quote refers to the timelessness of God's realm.

Absence of physical dimension and it's resultant time equals infinity.

Look, I'm a plain talker. I like to use regular words and language to help me understand my world because I am really trying to understand it.

I understand there could be things that exist eternally. For example, the fact that something existed is an eternal fact. The fact that "I am" (me) existed will be a truth though unknown) even after this universe disappears.

It appears "I am" is a reference to our ability to be self-aware, not God.

It's a good example of what's fun about language....

[mgb]

[Replying to post 36 by Ooberman]

Things always were and are eternal. Time is a limitation on our awareness of eternity. Somebody once said that time is a moving image of eternity. We are always in eternity. It is not "outside" space or time, it is here.

[Jacob Simonsky]

[Replying to post 36 by Ooberman]

Things always were and are eternal. Time is a limitation on our awareness of eternity. Somebody once said that time is a moving image of eternity. We are always in eternity. It is not "outside" space or time, it is here.

We know that time is a result of or an effect of a three dimensional universe. We strongly suspect that our universe had a beginning. If this is true then before the beginning there can't have been time yet there must have been a cause. Going one step further we may speculate that the cause, whatever it was, had some sort of existence but in what? Was is physical? If so it can't have been the universe that we are in because ours had not yet been begun. Either the cause of the beginning of our universe was in another universe like ours or, more likely, it is possible that there is some sort of existence in something which is other than physical. Allowing that there is such a thing as spiritual, non-matter is the easiest solution so far as I am concerned. I therefore believe in a spiritual existence, one in which there is no time, which perhaps coincides with our universe, from which everything in our universe came. So what is the cause? Dunno. After all this brain pain I need a beer.

[mgb]

[Replying to post 39 by Jacob Simonsky]

Yes I agree with the drift of what you are saying. Everything is happening in eternity. Matter 'grew' in eternity when God translated some of His energy into matter. One day it will dissolve away again. Enjoy your beer!