? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?

[YahDough]

This is a question addressed only to former Christians who have left the faith.

Why did you become a Christian?
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[YahDough]

I don't always know what to expect from "rational individuals".

I wouldn't question that claim in the least.

Yes, and that's why I put "rational individuals" in quotes. People whose 'rationale' is self-serving and indulgent are unpredictable.

But I am learning to expect the ungodly ones to "rant" against and reject the Truth.

Well, before you label people as being "ungodly" I would suggest that you first provide some sort of rational evidence that the term has any meaning.

I don't have to "label" people as ungodly. They know who they are.

[Divine Insight]

I don't always know what to expect from "rational individuals".

I wouldn't question that claim in the least.

Yes, and that's why I put "rational individuals" in quotes. People whose 'rationale' is self-serving and indulgent are unpredictable.

But I am learning to expect the ungodly ones to "rant" against and reject the Truth.

Well, before you label people as being "ungodly" I would suggest that you first provide some sort of rational evidence that the term has any meaning.

I don't have to "label" people as ungodly. They know who they are.

Based on what you have said here then I can only imagine that you see only scientists as being rational people who don't rant against truth.

I would agree.

But I see no reason to bring the term "ungodly" in to the conversation at all since there are no rational reasons to believe that any God exists, and the truth appears to be that there is overwhelming evidence against the existence of any Gods. Not only overwhelming scientific evidence against them, but overwhelming rational logic against them as well.

If the term "godly" is simply being used as a metaphor for those who seek truth, then scientists are the most "godly" people of all. Of course, that would just be an abstract concept, but yes, I can see your point that seeking truth would be in harmony with that metaphorical concept. That's what scientists do above and beyond everyone else, they seek truth.

So secular scientists are the most "godly" people on earth. (Using your metaphor)

I actually knew that for many decades now.

And like you say, those people who rant against the truth are the ungodly ones. Ironically that would include almost all theists.

[YahDough]

I don't always know what to expect from "rational individuals".

I wouldn't question that claim in the least.

Yes, and that's why I put "rational individuals" in quotes. People whose 'rationale' is self-serving and indulgent are unpredictable.

But I am learning to expect the ungodly ones to "rant" against and reject the Truth.

Well, before you label people as being "ungodly" I would suggest that you first provide some sort of rational evidence that the term has any meaning.

I don't have to "label" people as ungodly. They know who they are.

Based on what you have said here then I can only imagine that you see only scientists as being rational people who don't rant against truth.

You imagine incorrectly. "Scientists" are not immune to irrationality that leads them to "rant against the truth". There are ungodly scientists. But the concept of ungodliness covers a lot of territory from thinking to behavior. Ungodly people both deny God and live in defiance of Him. Science can be lost in the pursuit of science when we take our Creator God out of the picture. Now that's ironic.

I would agree.

No, it appears you don't.

[KenRU]

Well, before you label people as being "ungodly" I would suggest that you first provide some sort of rational evidence that the term has any meaning.

I don't have to "label" people as ungodly. They know who they are.

Does the "ungodly" include other Christians who "got it wrong"? Other religions such as Islam and Buddhists? How about the Jews? Are they considered ungodly?

Or is it just the atheists?

[OnceConvinced]

One could argue that ALL Christians are ungodly, especially if there is no such thing as God.

[YahDough]

Well, before you label people as being "ungodly" I would suggest that you first provide some sort of rational evidence that the term has any meaning.

I don't have to "label" people as ungodly. They know who they are.

Does the "ungodly" include other Christians who "got it wrong"? Other religions such as Islam and Buddhists? How about the Jews? Are they considered ungodly?

Or is it just the atheists?

A little introspection and self-awareness should make it clear how one stands with "God" and whether they are godly or not. A "godly atheist" doesn't sound quite right, but anyone can exhibit virtuous characteristics that might be considered godly, even if they don't believe in God.

[Divine Insight]

A little introspection and self-awareness should make it clear how one stands with "God" and whether they are godly or not.

If there is no "God" then the concept of "standing with God" makes no sense. And all the introspection and self-awareness in the world can't change that.

A "godly atheist" doesn't sound quite right, but anyone can exhibit virtuous characteristics that might be considered godly, even if they don't believe in God.

That's right, an atheist can indeed be a "godly" person when the term "godly" is simply meant to imply virtuous. There are many virtuous atheists, and therefore in the abstract sense of the term it is safe to say that many atheists are "godly", although there's no point in using that term with an atheists. It would be clearer and serve language and communication better to simply say that they are virtuous.

There is no need to bring terms like "godly" into a secular conversation.

[KenRU]

Well, before you label people as being "ungodly" I would suggest that you first provide some sort of rational evidence that the term has any meaning.

I don't have to "label" people as ungodly. They know who they are.

Does the "ungodly" include other Christians who "got it wrong"? Other religions such as Islam and Buddhists? How about the Jews? Are they considered ungodly?

Or is it just the atheists?

A little introspection and self-awareness should make it clear how one stands with "God" and whether they are godly or not. A "godly atheist" doesn't sound quite right, but anyone can exhibit virtuous characteristics that might be considered godly, even if they don't believe in God.

While I appreciate the verbal banter, your response doesn't answer my question. Please elaborate what YOU mean by (or consider to be) "ungodly". Thanks!

[Nickman]

Well, before you label people as being "ungodly" I would suggest that you first provide some sort of rational evidence that the term has any meaning.

I don't have to "label" people as ungodly. They know who they are.

Does the "ungodly" include other Christians who "got it wrong"? Other religions such as Islam and Buddhists? How about the Jews? Are they considered ungodly?

Or is it just the atheists?

A little introspection and self-awareness should make it clear how one stands with "God" and whether they are godly or not. A "godly atheist" doesn't sound quite right, but anyone can exhibit virtuous characteristics that might be considered godly, even if they don't believe in God.

Does "godly" include all of the horrible things that he demanded in the OT? If that is "godly" then I would fall under "ungodly" because I do not and would not do what was asked in the OT. I think the correct word would be "virtuous." This term outweighs the term "godly" because it is not tainted with the horrible things that this supposed God did or demanded.

[Nickman]

Well, before you label people as being "ungodly" I would suggest that you first provide some sort of rational evidence that the term has any meaning.

I don't have to "label" people as ungodly. They know who they are.

Does the "ungodly" include other Christians who "got it wrong"? Other religions such as Islam and Buddhists? How about the Jews? Are they considered ungodly?

Or is it just the atheists?

A little introspection and self-awareness should make it clear how one stands with "God" and whether they are godly or not. A "godly atheist" doesn't sound quite right, but anyone can exhibit virtuous characteristics that might be considered godly, even if they don't believe in God.

While I appreciate the verbal banter, your response doesn't answer my question. Please elaborate what YOU mean by (or consider to be) "ungodly". Thanks!

The way I see it is that any term like "godly" can be used like "Mormon" because it carries baggage. "Godly" really has no true definition.