Clones and Souls

unicorn · Post by **unicorn** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:38 pm

Would clones have souls? Maybe that's why they die so quickly...because God does not endow them with souls...they are copies of the biological aspect of a being--souls cannot be replicated. Souls are what spark life/animate the biological being. What do you guys think?

unicorn · Post by **unicorn** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:41 pm

Chimp:

That's awesome. Thank you for clearing that up for me. My answer is then, more elaborately...clones do have souls...sort of...they have a sort of photocopy of a soul...only able to animate for a short period of time, fading very quickly...not assigned by God as a unique, new, individual "self."

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:48 pm

unicorn wrote:McCulloch:
I think your question begs a more important question. Are there souls?
yes
Are souls reincarnated?
no
Do plants have souls?
I think they do
Are humans unique to having souls or do other species have souls?...are they different form human souls?
I think other species have souls. They are different form human souls.
Does a soul cease to exist at death?...If not, what happens to them?
No...they continue to exist.
Does a soul pre-exist?
I've wondered this. I don't think so.
How are they ceated?
Only God knows that.

But you left out the most important question. How do you know this? I hope it is not "the bible tells me so."

unicorn · Post by **unicorn** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:56 pm

Actually, my answer is the bible and science.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:28 pm

unicorn wrote:Actually, my answer is the bible and science.

I have read the bible. It says lots about souls. I am completely unaware of any science relating to the topic of souls. Please enlighten me.

unicorn · Post by **unicorn** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:57 pm

McCulloch:

It would be my pleasure! I'll find the information and get back with you.

QED · Post by **QED** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:24 am

unicorn wrote: QED:

When you say clones die quickly, in all the cases I know of it's been a question of premature aging. Dolly the sheep was put down after 6 years because of this...however, she was "normal"...
Do you know of any cases in which aging does not eventually lead to death?

What an odd question

people die from accidents and illness in which case their aging does not eventually lead to death! However somehow I don't think that was what you were trying to get at. This article suggests that the effects on aging from cloning are far from clear. The article actually suggests that cloning might increase lifespan. One thing's for sure though, the cloning process creates viable, animated, life that eats sleeps and breaths just like any other animal...

unicorn wrote: Souls are what spark life/animate the biological being.

So what do you make of scientists being able to create animate life?

unicorn · Post by **unicorn** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:45 pm

QED:

What an odd question...somehow I don't think that was what you were trying to get at.

Good, because I've stated what I was getting at...several times...too many times.

Also, the article doesn't really say anything we don't already know: "suggests", "questions remain", "unsuccessful"...etc. says it all.

So what do you make of scientist being able to create animate life?

They don't create it. They make copies of it...inefficient, defective copies. So, I don't think much of it. And the thoughts I do have I have already stated.

unicorn · Post by **unicorn** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:56 pm

McCulloch:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/06/ ... 8885.shtml

http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/ ... Lommel.htm

http://www.datadiwan.de/SciMedNet/libra ... ia_nde.htm

unicorn · Post by **unicorn** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:46 pm

P.S.: A 3rd Gentleman has brought me to a greater understanding on this whole Do Clones Have Souls issue. You might want to check out the When God Knows A Soul Goes to Hell thread.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:16 pm

McCulloch wrote:But you left out the most important question. How do you know this? I hope it is not "the bible tells me so."

unicorn wrote:Actually, my answer is the bible and science.

McCulloch wrote:I have read the bible. It says lots about souls. I am completely unaware of any science relating to the topic of souls. Please enlighten me.

unicorn wrote:It would be my pleasure! I'll find the information and get back with you.

unicorn wrote: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/06/ ... 8885.shtml

(Reuters) A British scientist studying heart attack patients says he is finding evidence that suggests that consciousness may continue after the brain has stopped functioning and a patient is clinically dead.

The research, presented to scientists last week at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), resurrects the debate over whether there is life after death and whether there is such a thing as the human soul.

"The studies are very significant in that we have a group of people with no brain function ... who have well-structured, lucid thought processes with reasoning and memory formation at a time when their brains are shown not to function," Sam Parnia, one of two doctors from Southampton General Hospital in England who have been studying so-called near-death experiences (NDEs), told Reuters in an interview.

"We need to do much larger-scale studies, but the possibility is certainly there" to suggest that consciousness, or the soul, keeps thinking and reasoning even if a person's heart has stopped, he is not breathing and his brain activity is nil, Parnia said.

He said he and colleagues conducted an initial yearlong study, the results of which appeared in the February issue of the journal Resuscitation. The study was so promising the doctors formed a foundation to fund further research and continue collecting data.

During the initial study, Parnia said, 63 heart attack patients who were deemed clinically dead but were later revived were interviewed within a week of their experiences.

Of those, 56 said they had no recollection of the time they were unconscious and seven reported having memories. Of those, four were labeled NDEs in that they reported lucid memories of thinking, reasoning, moving about and communicating with others after doctors determined their brains were not functioning.

Among other things, the patients reported remembering feelings of peace, joy and harmony. For some, time sped up, senses heightened and they lost awareness of their bodies.

A single scientist in 2001 is putting forth a hypothesis that there may be consciousness after cessation of brain activity. Have there been any follow up funding for his study? How does this one unproven hypothesis prove any of the many things you have said about souls?

unicorn wrote:http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/ ... Lommel.htm

Part of the ongoing debate about the significance of Near Death Experiences (NDEs). It argues that NDEs prove that there is some kind of being apart from the brain activity, a soul if you will. There is still no convincing proof and it still does not answer where you have got your evidence for all of those things you say about souls. However, a better attempt than the previous link.

unicorn wrote:http://www.datadiwan.de/SciMedNet/libra ... ia_nde.htm

The occurrence of NDEs in cardiac arrest further highlights the fact that we currently know very little about the relationship between the mind and the brain. It also raises the possibility that some of the current theories regarding mind/consciousness, spirituality and the brain may need to be re-examined.

In direct opposition to your claims, this article shows that science knows little or nothing about souls and if anything, more research needs to be done.