Question about the Quran

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TG123
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Question about the Quran

Post #1

Post by TG123 »

Salaam Alaikum,

This is a question to the Muslim posters on the forum. Can you please tell me what significance the Quran has for you in your faith? I know Islam teaches that God revealed it directly through the ArchAngel Gabriel to Muhammad.

Do you believe that it is 100% true and without any mistakes? I know that the Quran teaches there are no contradictions in it, would the same apply to other kinds of errors (ie scientific, historical, theological, etc)?

4:82
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction.

If a mistake was found in the Quran that was not a contradiction, would it still be in your opinion the word of God?


Shukran wa Allahma3k. Ramadan Mubarak aydan.

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Divine Insight
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Post #11

Post by Divine Insight »

TG123 wrote: What makes you believe that a worldview that does not require any Holy Books would be a positive thing?
Well, it's certainly a positive thing in terms of allowing the worldview to expand and evolve to include new information as it becomes available.

For example, I embrace Solitary Eclectic Wicca (which is popularly viewed as a religion). Yet it is flexible enough to include just about any philosophical world view, even atheistic world views depending on how a person defines atheism.

It's impossible to prove my Solitary Eclectic Wicca to be false. Everything in my spiritual paradigm is totally compatible with all known science. So it's not in conflict with science (no war going on there).

It also doesn't require or demand a belief in any strict mythologies. I do appeal to some mythologies selectively to illustrate various philosophical concepts. But I fully confess that those mythologies are only embraced as pure metaphors. I even confess that they are subjectively selected by me personally. And I purposefully select mythologies that illustrate what I consider to be high moral ground.

Because in the end, in Wicca, I am the spiritual essence of the universe. As I also believe to be true of everyone.

So it's not "Wicca" that gives me morality, but the other way around.

I'm not suggesting that Wicca is itself a moral religion. It neither moral not immoral it is amoral. It's just paradigm for organizing a worldview.

You could, in theory, create you own Solitary Wicca that would indeed be immoral by my standards of morality. In fact, many people already do.

However, having said that, I would personally suggest that if a person is in violation of the Wicca Rede of harming none, then they are being dishonest when they claim that they are practicing "Wicca".

But as with all religions there are always spoilers out there. There are indeed people who claim to be Wiccans who renounce the Wicca Rede. This would be like Christians who renounce that Jesus was the Christ. All these people are doing is trying to use a popular label that they don't truly agree with.

Do those kinds of claims even make any sense?
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Post #12

Post by Divine Insight »

steps wrote: I am very sure that you read these verses and you understood them before asking me , and you know that I am keeping info about this subject for you .

There is huge differences between someone asks about Islam and someone tries to attack Islam.
As an unbiased by-stander in this debate I don't see where you have address TG123's observations.

TG123 spoke of actual tombs that had been built with inscriptions on them and were even built at a much later date that the event spoken of in the Qur'an.

To steps,

You claim that their homes became their tombs due to a blast that killed these people. But a blast that kills people doesn't build stone monuments and inscribe them.

So your apologetic argument doesn't hold water, IMHO.

So thus far I see TG123's claims haven't truly been addressed at all. You have simply side-stepped them by trying to pretend that these people were killed in their homes so that they home metaphorically became tombs.

But a metaphorical apologetic argument won't work here. You need to explain how actual stone tombs go there and were inscribed. And how this happened centuries after the original event supposedly even happened.

So thus far I see no viable answers in your apologetic argument that actually addresses TG's observations.
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A Troubled Man
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Post #13

Post by A Troubled Man »

TG123 wrote:
What makes you believe that a worldview that does not require any Holy Books would be a positive thing?
The "worldview" can then turn to reason, rationale and logic rather than myth and superstition.

Of course, some find it very hard to think, often a result of religious indoctrination, so they refuse to try and turn to false answers and hopes from ancient mythologies because they believe those guys were really, really, really wise.

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Post #14

Post by A Troubled Man »

steps wrote: it is the believe of all Muslims .

The mistake would be the misunderstanding by the human himself , but the Quran does not contain one mistake .

Please write your misunderstanding about the Quran .
Some folks have produced a thousand mistakes in the Quran. Good luck with that.

http://1000mistakes.com/

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Post #15

Post by steps »

A Troubled Man wrote:
steps wrote: it is the believe of all Muslims .

The mistake would be the misunderstanding by the human himself , but the Quran does not contain one mistake .

Please write your misunderstanding about the Quran .
Some folks have produced a thousand mistakes in the Quran. Good luck with that.

http://1000mistakes.com/
Allah says : ((112. And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies - Shayatin (devils) among mankind and jinns, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception). If your Lord had so willed, they would not have done it, so leave them alone with their fabrications.)) surah 6

The exact descriptions of this enemy , he is a devil wants to mislead and drives them to the way of astray , through adorned speech [ mixing lies and the truth ] . or referring to the verse number only . because he knew that TM is not going to check behind him , or cutting the verses from the context to give another meaning .

From the website
http://www.1000mistakes.com/1000mistake ... 01_002_001

MEGA MISTAKE 1, PART 1, IN THE QURAN

1-Originally the sky and the Earth – or Earths – was like smoke (surah 41/11). Well, science says the Earth and the heavens/sky never were smoke (= micro particles “floating� or dispersed in gas). The situation most closely similar to that was the first some 300.000 (380ooo?) years after the Big Bang some 13.7 billion years ago – before the first stars appeared. But for one thing then it only was gas (hydrogen and a little helium) and not smoke – no particles - and for another thing there was no Earth. Our Earth belongs to the 3. generation of stars and planets, and appeared some 4.6 billion years ago (4.57 according to the latest scietific information), made from bits and pieces of stone, metal, minerals, etc. etc., thrown out into the void from exploding older stars – supernovas – at least two times over. Aggregation of everything from pebbles and pieces of stone or ore or metal or anything, to big boulders, comets, asteroids, and even planetoids – mini planets – little by little built the Earth. We still can see the left over building material scattered around out there: Meteors, comets, and also the Kuiper belt and the Oort’s cloud – everything from grains of sand and pebbles to small planets with a diameter of more than 2000 kilometers. And that definitely is not smoke, too. Wrong.

The response :
Exposing his mega lie

He said : Originally the sky and the Earth – or Earths – was like smoke (surah 41/11).

The holy Quran says : ((11. Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience." )) Surah 41

Read it million times , you will find the pronoun " it " refers to the sky only . which means he is big liar . do we have to complete our speech with liars ? NO . NO . NO

because Allah commanded his prophet at the first verse in my comment to ignore the devil men : (( so leave them alone with their fabrications ))

The scientific fact :

the source : http://outreach.jach.hawaii.edu/pressroom/2003_casa/

quote [A team of UK astronomers have announced the discovery that some supernovae have bad habits - they belch out huge quantities of 'smoke' known as cosmic dust. This solves a mystery more than 10 billion years in the making. The new observations, published on 17th July in the journal 'Nature', answer long-standing questions about the origin of the first solid particles ever to form in the Universe. The team measured the cold cosmic dust in 'Cassiopeia A', the remnant of a supernova explosion in our own Galaxy, about 11,000 light years from Earth. The amount of dust was a thousand times what had been previously detected, suggesting that these powerful explosions are one of the most efficient ways to create cosmic dust. This also answers the riddle of how large quantities of dust recently discovered in the early universe were formed. ]

The source : http://gwest.gats-inc.com/sofie/science ... ments.html


quote [The Cassini spacecraft continues this research with an instrument capable of detecting the impact of tiny particles -- 1/1,000 of a millimeter wide. To understand their true size and consistency, this cosmic dust can best be visually compared to icy cigar smoke particles. Under certain conditions, the Cosmic Dust Analyzer (CDA) onboard the spacecraft can even detect smaller dust grains called nano-dust. A nano-dust particle is one-millionth of a millimeter in size. Particles this small have as few as one million atoms, and are even smaller than a single influenza virus. Detection of these particles by the Cosmic Dust Analyzer would be equivalent to the detection of a single raindrop falling into the Gulf of Mexico. ]

Now tell the modern science : there is an illiterate man his name is Mohammad a messenger from Allah knew this fact before 1400 years .

My advice : do not run after false sites , the holy Quran is perfect book . it is impossible for any person and the whole world to challenge the holy Quran . and no need to speak about 999 false claims . I answered the mega lie as the site claims .

It is your turn to use your brain .

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Post #16

Post by A Troubled Man »

steps wrote:
The exact descriptions of this enemy , he is a devil wants to mislead and drives them to the way of astray , through adorned speech [ mixing lies and the truth ] .
Yes, everyone who doesn't believe as you do must be in league with the devil. :lol:

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Post #17

Post by steps »

[Replying to A Troubled Man]

My Advice , from my heart : believe in Allah , because you are increasing the troubles on yourself . no one will help you except Allah .

The confession of the unbelievers :

It is a warning : [130. "O ye assembly of Jinns and men! came there not unto you apostles from amongst you, setting forth unto you My signs, and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves." It was the life of this world that deceived them. So against themselves will they bear witness that they rejected Faith. ] Surah 6

And no man will be able to find any excuse , Allah is warning the unbelievers that their skins will bear witness

[19. On the Day that the enemies of Allah will be gathered together to the Fire, they will be marched in ranks.20. At length, when they reach the (Fire), their hearing, their sight, and their skins will bear witness against them, as to (all) their deeds.21. They will say to their skins: "Why bear ye witness against us?" They will say: "(Allah) hath given us speech,- (He) Who giveth speech to everything: He created you for the first time, and unto Him were ye to return.22. "Ye did not seek to hide yourselves, lest your hearing, your sight, and your skins should bear witness against you! But ye did think that Allah knew not many of the things that ye used to do!23. "But this thought of yours which ye did entertain concerning your Lord, hath brought you to destruction, and (now) have ye become of those utterly lost!"24. If, then, they have patience, the Fire will be a home for them! and if they beg to be received into favour, into favour will they not (then) be received.25. And We have destined for them intimate companions (of like nature), who made alluring to them what was before them and behind them; and the sentence among the previous generations of Jinns and men, who have passed away, is proved against them; for they are utterly lost.]

Thanks

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Post #18

Post by A Troubled Man »

steps wrote:
My Advice , from my heart : believe in Allah , because you are increasing the troubles on yourself . no one will help you except Allah .
I would have to shed all reason, rationale and logic, completely and unilaterally, give up all knowledge and understanding of the world around me, toss out the window my integrity, worth and self-respect, or just get a pre-frontal lobotomy to do such a thing.

Allah does not help, He demands no less than any other psychotic maniac who wants others to worship and obey Him, and if they don't, He sends them to hell to burn for an eternity.
And no man will be able to find any excuse , Allah is warning the unbelievers that their skins will bear witness
No, Allah is threatening unbelievers, just like you are.

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Post #19

Post by steps »

There are a differences between the threatening and warning
Threatening is the result of enmity .
And warning is the result of caring and safety .

When you drive your car , you will see traffic signs . for examples : the schools signs.

Image

Are these signs for warnings or for threatening ?

And where they place them ? before you reach the school or after you pass the school ?

And to Allah the high example :
He told us our road and our journey will end to him .And he placed for us the signs [ warnings ] before we end our journey .

do you understand , or your mind still locked ?

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Post #20

Post by Divine Insight »

steps wrote: And to Allah the high example :
He told us our road and our journey will end to him .And he placed for us the signs [ warnings ] before we end our journey .

do you understand , or your mind still locked ?
Clearly it's you who doesn't understand the difference between threats and warnings.

If someone threatens to beat you to a pulp if you don't do as they say that's a threat.

If someone threatens to cast you into a fiery furnace like Adolph Hitler did to people, that's also a threat.

It's not like there's a fiery furnace that just happens to exist that you need to be warned about. It's crystal clear that Allah is the hateful and hideous God who created that furnace specifically as a threat to anyone who refuses to obey his immoral commandments.

Therefore Allah is a hateful evil mythological God who uses threats to try to get people to believe in him. (although clearly there is no actual God associated with these myths, this is just an immoral brainwashing tactic of the devious men who wrote the Qur'an)

This would be like a man threatening to beat his wife if she didn't love and obey him. Of course, in Islam that might be considered acceptable behavior too. But if it is, then Islam does not know the difference between threats and warnings and also supports hatred and wife battering in the name of Allah. All the more reason for people to speak out against Islam even if they aren't interested in religion at all. They may still have an interest in trying to protect women from being beaten by men who might believe in Allah.

So it's not only an immoral religion in general, but it can be dangerous and harmful to other people as well.

It's simply inhumane even from a purely secular point of view.

How you can try to pass such evil myths off as a religion is beyond me.
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Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
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