Atheist Academy

[Izumi Koushirou]

Allright troops, listen up.
We are going to run this academy in this format:

I will post an argument from the Christian viewpoint. It is your job to contradict it with good logic. I will grade you on the following aspects:

• Organization

• Logic

• Presentation

• Argument

• Style

• Attack

The first statement will be posted tomorrow night at 11:00 US Central Time.

That is all.
Izumi out.

[RavEMasteR]

Finally, I can learn from the legendary Izumi. Care to bring in Elan too? ^^

It'll be fun! I'm waiting to hear from you. =)

Most misfortunate, but I'm not in the US, so I don't know what the time will be. I'll still answer though. Please do grade me!

[Izumi Koushirou]

The first statement is as follows:
(This is an original UT Atheist Academy statement)

"God exists because it is illogical to believe otherwise, as God would be the creator of the Universe. And there must be a creator, after all- if one located a watch upon the beach, would one say that the watch merely came into being? No, of course not. One would say a man built it!"

Good luck guys.
Ready...
Set...
Go...

Ps. I also suggest you read this website
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/ The Atheist Web

[RavEMasteR]

"God exists because it is illogical to believe otherwise, as God would be the creator of the Universe. And there must be a creator, after all- if one located a watch upon the beach, would one say that the watch merely came into being? No, of course not. One would say a man built it!"

I hope you're intentionally making this easy..., Izumi.

Anyway, why would it be illogocal to believe otherwise? The guy who worships another God may also say that your God is illogocal. While you two are wasting time arguing among each other who's God is illogical, have you ever bothered to stop to think for a second; is there ANY evidence that your God is the true one?

The Bible may have predictions that have come to pass, but have your considered, if I prophecize that the Jews will one day all die out, it'll happen sooner or later, be it a thousand years later, or a million? Anything can happen, it's only a matter of time. The only problem is, not everyone remembers what other people predicted, and only gave credit to the bible alone, since it is the thickest book of fairy tales and nonsense. The man who predicted WWI, WWII, and WWIII hardly got any credit. I don't know who this man is, but he supposedly wrote the Satanic bible. See? I don't even know who the hell that man is, while I know those who wrote the bible. It's all a matter of credit.

The watch is on the beach because someone left it there. We may be here coz' some alien race decided to dump us here for research purposes. The idea has just as much proof as God creating us to grow here.

[Corvus]

"God exists because it is illogical to believe otherwise, as God would be the creator of the Universe. And there must be a creator, after all- if one located a watch upon the beach, would one say that the watch merely came into being? No, of course not. One would say a man built it!"

If the watch couldn't simply spring into being, neither can a God spring into being in the distant past. Saying that he has always existed is folly, because I can just as easily say that the world has always existed. You assume that for the world to exist, it must have a beginning, but that's only based on the assumption that time is linear, when that is yet to be proven. Neither creation or destruction is observable in nature. Only change.

[Izumi Koushirou]

Anyway, why would it be illogocal to believe otherwise? The guy who worships another God may also say that your God is illogocal. While you two are wasting time arguing among each other who's God is illogical, have you ever bothered to stop to think for a second; is there ANY evidence that your God is the true one?

The Bible may have predictions that have come to pass, but have your considered, if I prophecize that the Jews will one day all die out, it'll happen sooner or later, be it a thousand years later, or a million? Anything can happen, it's only a matter of time. The only problem is, not everyone remembers what other people predicted, and only gave credit to the bible alone, since it is the thickest book of fairy tales and nonsense. The man who predicted WWI, WWII, and WWIII hardly got any credit. I don't know who this man is, but he supposedly wrote the Satanic bible. See? I don't even know who the hell that man is, while I know those who wrote the bible. It's all a matter of credit.

The watch is on the beach because someone left it there. We may be here coz' some alien race decided to dump us here for research purposes. The idea has just as much proof as God creating us to grow here

Not bad.
I've seen better, but not bad.

Organization: You went way off topic. In fact, you only hit back to the topic at the end. You went off on a tangent about predictions. The christian statement presented talks how if one finds something, it must be created.

Rating: 5

Logic: Your logic was excellent. You might want to cut back on the alien references, but that's just a suggestion that doesn't really have to be listened to.

Rating: 9

Presentation: Again, you presented your argument very well. However, I do have some problems with your typing and some of the sentences. Remember, try to type as gramatically correct as possible.

Also, the word "illogical" is an atheist's best friend. Spell it right.

Rating: 7

Argument: Your argument was sound, however, not the most amazing. Work on your wording, and on what exactly you are trying to say. However, if I'm going specific here, and I would have prefered to have an argument more closely related to the statement.

Rating: 7

Style: You have such contempt for Christians, it's funny. I mean, really. I can feel your anger, your dislike of them. Keep it up, however, be careful if you show it too much. You push and you push and you push. That's the key to Atheism.

Rating: 10

Attack will be changed to Effectiveness:

Your post was ultimately effective. It struck down against believing in one god, and how that must be the creator of the universe. Again, if you had attacked the watch a little bit more, your post would have been far more effective.

Here's my reply to this statement when Elan asked it:

It is actually illogical for god to exist. If you must think about it, there is one more step, one even more complex, for the universe to have been created if god exists, and that is the creation of god itself. What could have created god? A higher god?

Let's apply Occam's Razor to this argument.
What is more logical: That the universe was somehow created and it expanded and somehow life occured, or that a god was created which created a universe which expanded and then he created life?

On a secondary note, just because we don't know why things occured in the beginning of the universe yet, doesn't mean we won't. 2000 years ago, we still believed that we were the center of the universe, and that there were only four elements. I'm sure we'll discover the reason one day, that is what science is, the discovery of facts and the pursuit of knowledge

[RavEMasteR]

I see, so my weak point would be organization, coz the other two mainly stems from typos and sleepiness.

I'll go work on that.

I'll be waiting for your next one!

[Corvus]

Grade me, grade me!

[Izumi Koushirou]

"God exists because it is illogical to believe otherwise, as God would be the creator of the Universe. And there must be a creator, after all- if one located a watch upon the beach, would one say that the watch merely came into being? No, of course not. One would say a man built it!"

If the watch couldn't simply spring into being, neither can a God spring into being in the distant past. Saying that he has always existed is folly, because I can just as easily say that the world has always existed. You assume that for the world to exist, it must have a beginning, but that's only based on the assumption that time is linear, when that is yet to be proven. Neither creation or destruction is observable in nature. Only change.

Nice, very nice.
This is what I am talking about.

Organization:

You stuck on topic, you completed your points in every sub-topic.
Rating: 10

Logic:

Again, no problems there. You applied an argument called Occam's Razor to this, but without stating. I would have stated it, but that's a choice up to you .

Rating: 10

Presentation:

Love the word of the use "folly". It makes you seem superior and far more understanding than the person that made this statement. I would have to say that your presentation might need a little bit more sarcasm and comtempt. There is a line between rudeness and subtle superiority, and you should push the point a little bit more.

Rating: 9

Argument:

No flaws. Nice going.

Rating: 10

Style:

Your style shows that you are intellegent, but yet, you don't seem upset nor angry. That's a good sign of clear-headedness, and in debate, that's everything. Work on showing a little bit more contempt and sarcasm. Everybody loves sarcasm and it pisses off the opponent, making them make stupid mistakes

Rating: 8

Effectiveness:

You proved a point. You damaged the opponent about 100%. I would have to say that really isn't more you could have done to do what you had to do.

Rating: 10
Total Rating: 9.5

[Corvus]

Thank you. I have to disagree that I should show more superiority. I am sceptical in atheism and christianity equally. Obviously, we can't ever be sure of the truth. I bring pure reason to the debate.