Atheist Academy

Where agnostics and atheists can freely discuss

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Izumi Koushirou
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Atheist Academy

Post #1

Post by Izumi Koushirou »

Allright troops, listen up.
We are going to run this academy in this format:

I will post an argument from the Christian viewpoint. It is your job to contradict it with good logic. I will grade you on the following aspects:
  • Organization
  • Logic
  • Presentation
  • Argument
  • Style
  • Attack
The first statement will be posted tomorrow night at 11:00 US Central Time.

That is all.
Izumi out.
I know you�re afraid of us, afraid of change. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell how it's going to begin. I'm going to show them a world without you. A world where anything is possible.

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Wertz
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Post #11

Post by Wertz »

"God exists because it is illogical to believe otherwise, as God would be the creator of the Universe. And there must be a creator, after all- if one located a watch upon the beach, would one say that the watch merely came into being? No, of course not. One would say a man built it!"
The first sentence lacks any foundation whatsoever, presuming both an anthropomorphic "creator" and a "logic" to that presumption. I believe the technical term for such a statement is "hogwash".

I thought the tired old "argument from design" had dispensed with the watch-on-the-beach story ages ago: argument by analogy has always been a sign of desperation. Nevertheless... when one encounters a watch on a beach, one recognizes it as an artifact as opposed to a natural object. Why? Because of its simplicity - not its complexity. It is composed of geometric circles and lines, it's parts move with a regular, predictable rhythm, the markings on its face are placed at equally spaced intervals, it is ergonomic and efficient.

Further, it has a definite purpose and its design is both knowable and capale of being reproduced. With enough skill, the man on the beach could "create" a similar watch. Could he similarly manufacture seaweed? Could he build a mollusk? We assume the watch was "created" precisely because it is unnatural.

We can not, on the other hand, say that those things attributed by analogy to the "Architect of the Universe" are in any way simple or efficient. The natural world is, by comparison to a watch, a bloody mess. Irregular forms are abundant, inefficiency flourishes, entropy and atrophy abound. Granted, there are some things in nature which might almost lead us to believe that they are artifacts - crystals, for example. But open up any living thing and what do you find? Foul-smelling chaos.

Take the "pinnacle of creation" (uh, that would be Man) as an example: homo sapiens is among the worst designed machine in the known universe. Our eyes are "designed" with a blind spot; our spines were "designed" for quadrupeds, provide appalling structural support, and are prone to failure and injury; our ribcages were "designed" to leave many vital organs unprotected; the male urethra was "designed" to run through the prostate gland (which can cause death) and his inguinal canal not only leaves his testes exposed, but also leaves a weak spot prone to herniation; the female body was "designed" to make bearing large-brained children life-threateningly difficult,

To claim that the universe is an "artifact" created by God is to claim that God is a sloppy, inept, amateurish clod. If this guy were watch-maker, no one would ever know what time it was.

The notion of a personified Creator is hardly the only theory of the origin the universe - it's just the most illogical.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
--Voltaire

My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Lama

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emmy27sf
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i have to disagree

Post #12

Post by emmy27sf »

why do you hate Christians so much? i know, because they threaten you and make you think and that little thing eating you inside making you wonder if your wrong and it will tear you appart until u find truth. for one and i think your comming from the evolution perspective, is if evolution is 4 real then it is contradictory to the cell theory in which that it states all cells are created from cells, so where did the first cell come from? and that all things are composed of cells. if you think that you are so right id like you to argue against my man cs lewis and read mere christianity, just do it. what are you afraid that you might be proved wrong? als i can say is that peace be upon you and that the truth will set you free

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canadianhorsefan
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Post #13

Post by canadianhorsefan »

I know that I am a believer in Allah (God), so I am trying to prove why he's here, and I'll crush the Athiest resistance. :lol:
"God exists because it is illogical to believe otherwise, as God would be the creator of the Universe. And there must be a creator, after all- if one located a watch upon the beach, would one say that the watch merely came into being? No, of course not. One would say a man built it!"
We have all heard of the Big Bang. Maybe Christians believe it's a lie. But in the Qur'an, it says it actually happened (how would illeterate Arab idol-worshippers have known anything about.....nearly anything?). We say all life came from this, every living thing. But how did we get the Big Bang? Where did all the components of the explosion come from? They had to come from somewhere. And that's where Allah comes in. He created the Big Bang. He may not have pointed to the Earth and said "Let there be animals". Maybe he made the Big Bang and allowed animals to evolve from the components of it.

This might be straying off the topic, but this gives you Athiests a big obstacle:

"If Allah didn't exist, where did the Big Bang come from?"

If you refuse to answer, well, not my problem.

canadianhorsefan

P.S. If you grade me, maybe I should get all 0's. :confused2:

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emmy27sf
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Post #14

Post by emmy27sf »

thats great that your convictions are that strong but they are for the rong thing!!! there was no big bang, it is clear in the bible and historians agree that like everything in the bible that is in old testment was true and that it is proven that Jesus fullfilled the prophosesis atheist just like to rebel but when it comes down to it they are wrong and at least we can agree on that 8)

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otseng
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Post #15

Post by otseng »

Before this evolves into a debate, be reminded of two things.

This subforum is in the discussion category, so no debates are allowed here.

Also, the subforum is for atheists/agnostics to discuss, it's not intended for others to discuss here.

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canadianhorsefan
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Post #16

Post by canadianhorsefan »

You're right otseng, this probably will be a debate. Maybe we could debate the Big Bang theory somewhere? :confused2:

canadianhorsefan

Dr Strangelove
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Re: i have to disagree

Post #17

Post by Dr Strangelove »

emmy27sf wrote: for one and i think your comming from the evolution perspective, is if evolution is 4 real then it is contradictory to the cell theory in which that it states all cells are created from cells, so where did the first cell come from?
It has been proven that the first cell could have been formed from elements in earth's atmosphere reacting with lightning and forming cells. They attempted to recreate this in a lab and were able to form amino acids. (As you can see this process would involve alot of luck, but over millions of years there would be alot of chances. Not to mention the increase in the possiblity if similar conditions elsewere in the universe existed.)


emmy27sf wrote:thats great that your convictions are that strong but they are for the rong thing!!! there was no big bang, it is clear in the bible and historians agree that like everything in the bible that is in old testment was true and that it is proven that Jesus fullfilled the prophosesis atheist just like to rebel but when it comes down to it they are wrong and at least we can agree on that 8)
You should know that stating the reason you are right is because the bible says so won't work. (Unless of course, you were being sarcastic.)

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