Is scientology a cult or religion?

[goodwithoutgod]

As I understand it...

The official Scientology organization is composed of a number of “levels�. One begins as a “preclear� & works their way up. One must purchase virtually every service crucial to advancement directly from the "church" & at staggering prices. "Auditing", for example, is purchased in 12½ hour blocks, costing anywhere from $200-$750 for introductory sessions to between $8,000 & $9,000 for advanced sessions. Basically, Scientology claims to possess exclusive knowledge of the path to religious redemption & then charges obscene amounts of money for every tiny incremental step towards this end. $380,000 is a conservative estimate for the total cost of moving all the way up the Scientology hierarchal ladder.

At level OT III (Operating Thetan Level 3), some very strange & fiercely guarded secrets are imparted upon worthy members who have paid enough money to advance to such a level (and no, this isn't a joke): The evil alien ruler Xenu killed millions of aliens (Thetans) from around the universe by kidnapping them, bringing them to earth in golden DC-8 “space-planes�, stacking them around volcanoes & blowing them up by dropping “h-bombs� into the volcanoes. Scientologists believe the souls of these aliens (these souls are "Body Thetans") were captured, brainwashed & released; they then attached themselves to our ancestors (and according to Scientology’s belief in Thetan immortality, they also attached to us during “past lives�) & cause many of our mental & physical ills to this day. Auditing is said to “clear� us of these Body Thetans as well as the “mental implants� they supposedly impose on our minds.

The purpose of achieving the highest level is to be able to view the final document, because our feeble human brains can not read it without proper preparation without exploding...interesting thing is, it is on the internet, and I posted the synapsis above....I read it, and my brain didnt explode thankfully.

This has quite a healthy financial business model. But I wonder how the community at large views it? Cult, or religion?

[Aetixintro]

Why Scientology can be described as religious (and not cult)

Scientology, for removing petty quarrel below the worth of the readers of this discussion page, can be described as religious out of these reasons:

1. That it has a goal for humanity or sentience of inifinity, by the 8th dynamic.

2. That it has a special standing ascribed to human beings beyond being animals, that is, how it describes people as „Thetans“, people with body and soul.

3. It elevates or describes human beings within a definite ethical context, i.e., something along the 10 commandments for this inifinity to be achieved.
- also see „Aims of Scientology“.

4. It abides to certain common corpus as movement that can plausibly be followed by everybody, also the autonomy-principle for its members, New Slant on Life, pp. 33 onwards.
- this point also removes, along with the others, that Scientology can ever be a cult in the true sense. A signal for this is its churches and missions always placed decently with the cities, usually the capitals too, as matter of street location and other.

There is another non-cult consideration of Scientology that has a similar standing to the opinion-polling of 1000 people from the Social Sciences, it has to do with the number of members. That, regardless of the negative view of Scientology, a membermass that has reached a scope with more than 100 Churches and Missions around the planet, with a ship, Freewinds, and all from appx. 3 members to 30 million members or more, can't, simply CAN NOT, be described as cult, that the words on the Scientology Ethics by "The Way to Happiness" - "A Common Sense Guide to Better Living".

That we who are with Scientology can now easily deflect/dismiss any criticism against what we believe in and that a simple word for this to fx. the Cult Awareness Network can be made as a pre-emptive measure. That we stand absolutely defended under L. Ron Hubbard's brilliant contribution to human kind!

Cheers!

PS: Scientology is a religion also because of it's 8th Dynamic, the God dynamic, one that asserts that Humanity has a higher purpose, one that stretches into Infinity and MAY hold a God belief.

----
(Edit:) OT 3 to 380 000 Dollars sounds a bit cheap!. Think of a cheap beer! I'd rather go for an OT level that's 1 000 000 Dollars. That's one that may save from much more.

[goodwithoutgod]

Why Scientology can be described as religious (and not cult)

Scientology, for removing petty quarrel below the worth of the readers of this discussion page, can be described as religious out of these reasons:

1. That it has a goal for humanity or sentience of inifinity, by the 8th dynamic.

2. That it has a special standing ascribed to human beings beyond being animals, that is, how it describes people as „Thetans“, people with body and soul.

3. It elevates or describes human beings within a definite ethical context, i.e., something along the 10 commandments for this inifinity to be achieved.
- also see „Aims of Scientology“.

4. It abides to certain common corpus as movement that can plausibly be followed by everybody, also the autonomy-principle for its members, New Slant on Life, pp. 33 onwards.
- this point also removes, along with the others, that Scientology can ever be a cult in the true sense. A signal for this is its churches and missions always placed decently with the cities, usually the capitals too, as matter of street location and other.

There is another non-cult consideration of Scientology that has a similar standing to the opinion-polling of 1000 people from the Social Sciences, it has to do with the number of members. That, regardless of the negative view of Scientology, a membermass that has reached a scope with more than 100 Churches and Missions around the planet, with a ship, Freewinds, and all from appx. 3 members to 30 million members or more, can't, simply CAN NOT, be described as cult, that the words on the Scientology Ethics by "The Way to Happiness" - "A Common Sense Guide to Better Living".

That we who are with Scientology can now easily deflect/dismiss any criticism against what we believe in and that a simple word for this to fx. the Cult Awareness Network can be made as a pre-emptive measure. That we stand absolutely defended under L. Ron Hubbard's brilliant contribution to human kind!

Cheers!

PS: Scientology is a religion also because of it's 8th Dynamic, the God dynamic, one that asserts that Humanity has a higher purpose, one that stretches into Infinity and MAY hold a God belief.

----
(Edit:) OT 3 to 380 000 Dollars sounds a bit cheap!. Think of a cheap beer! I'd rather go for an OT level that's 1 000 000 Dollars. That's one that may save from much more.

Ever read their "final document"? sounds like a really really bad sci fi book while the write was taking ....hallucinates..I find it interesting someone could actually subscribe to that these days, course it isnt any stranger than the heavens gate believers I suppose. To each their own.

[Aetixintro]

Ever read their "final document"? sounds like a really really bad sci fi book while the write was taking ....hallucinates..I find it interesting someone could actually subscribe to that these days, course it isnt any stranger than the heavens gate believers I suppose. To each their own.

No, I have not! Is it as obscure as Xenu, also starring in a Sci-Fi version of Shakespeare's Othello? Also under executive direction of Webber?

For a start, the OFFICIAL site is www.scientology.org and it contains RELEVANT and OFFICIAL material! Can I now get the OFFICIAL book reference for this (thizzzzz...) "final document"?

Until then, you're just hot air and lying about the intention to ask honestly this question... Unfounded claim... (Not that the critics had problems relating to primary literature earlier...)

----
PS: The thing about cheap beer and 1 Mn Dollars was a joke!

[goodwithoutgod]

Ever read their "final document"? sounds like a really really bad sci fi book while the write was taking ....hallucinates..I find it interesting someone could actually subscribe to that these days, course it isnt any stranger than the heavens gate believers I suppose. To each their own.

No, I have not! Is it as obscure as Xenu, also starring in a Sci-Fi version of Shakespeare's Othello? Also under executive direction of Webber?

For a start, the OFFICIAL site is www.scientology.org and it contains RELEVANT and OFFICIAL material! Can I now get the OFFICIAL book reference for this (thizzzzz...) "final document"?

Until then, you're just hot air and lying about the intention to ask honestly this question... Unfounded claim... (Not that the critics had problems relating to primary literature earlier...)

----
PS: The thing about cheap beer and 1 Mn Dollars was a joke!

are you seriously defending this craziness? m'kay...I will do some poking around again, everytime it gets on the net, their lawyers file suit to take it down...not hard to find usually. You are aware that the official website is a propaganda tool right?...I thought you would be shrewd enough to read through that...perhaps I was wrong. Good luck on your achieving OTIII....

meanwhile, here is some real data you can read and let marinate a bit..

http://listverse.com/2007/07/28/top-8-l ... ientology/

[goodwithoutgod]

Ever read their "final document"? sounds like a really really bad sci fi book while the write was taking ....hallucinates..I find it interesting someone could actually subscribe to that these days, course it isnt any stranger than the heavens gate believers I suppose. To each their own.

No, I have not! Is it as obscure as Xenu, also starring in a Sci-Fi version of Shakespeare's Othello? Also under executive direction of Webber?

For a start, the OFFICIAL site is www.scientology.org and it contains RELEVANT and OFFICIAL material! Can I now get the OFFICIAL book reference for this (thizzzzz...) "final document"?

Until then, you're just hot air and lying about the intention to ask honestly this question... Unfounded claim... (Not that the critics had problems relating to primary literature earlier...)

----
PS: The thing about cheap beer and 1 Mn Dollars was a joke!

are you seriously defending this craziness? m'kay...I will do some poking around again, everytime it gets on the net, their lawyers file suit to take it down...not hard to find usually. Good luck on your achieving OTIII....sucker born every minute I guess.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Church_of_S ... ked_online

http://www.xenu.net/archive/secret.html

http://jeta.home.xs4all.nl/scn/ot3/ot3.html

http://unchain.gr/seizeddocs.html

ahhhhh Found it, in his handwriting no less....

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/

there you go, enjoy the hot air of facts blowing the BS out of the room.

[otseng]

Until then, you're just hot air and lying about the intention to ask honestly this question...

there you go, enjoy the hot air of facts blowing the BS out of the room.

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[Darias]

I understand the word "cult" has many negative connotations, but when those are set aside, the only real difference between a religion and a cult is time -- enough time for a new movement to become popular. The attempt to validate one set of religious beliefs over another is nonsensical when all you have on your side is a fallacious appeal to tradition; something is not true just because it's new or old, and I don't see how anyone can arrive at the truth by comparing and contrasting doctrinal assertions.

[goodwithoutgod]

I understand the word "cult" has many negative connotations, but when those are set aside, the only real difference between a religion and a cult is time -- enough time for a new movement to become popular. The attempt to validate one set of religious beliefs over another is nonsensical when all you have on your side is a fallacious appeal to tradition; something is not true just because it's new or old, and I don't see how anyone can arrive at the truth by comparing and contrasting doctrinal assertions.

good point. At least the older religions have had time to put together a good story though, based loosely on actual history, a smattering of miracles, some ancient forced participation to swell the ranks....scientology however, is just so out there, I could make up one tomorrow with more validity. I am truly about respecting ones beliefs...but scientology, heavens gate cult, etc....are just really hard to plaster on a smile and say "I get where you are coming from". The fact that society pretends to give it credibility by calling it a religion is just a sign of the politically correct times we live in I suppose. I mean the founder even bragged, "Want to get rich? start a religion" and he did..

[cnorman18]

Just my opinion, and I don't intend to pursue a debate on the subject -- the facts are too obvious -- but from everything I've read and know, and according to many people who have left it, Scientology is neither a cult nor a religion. It is a racket, and neither the founders nor the present-day leaders of Scientology ever really believed in their line of high-priced nonsense. It was and is a criminal enterprise, intended to fleece the suckers, from before it was ever founded.

Here's the EVIDENCE -- documented quotes from L. Ron Hubbard himself:

On his goals and methods:

Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion.
-- As quoted in the Los Angeles Times (27 August 1978)

THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them.
-- Lecture: "Off the Time Track" (June 1952) as quoted in Journal of Scientology issue 18-G, reprinted in Technical Volumes of Dianetics & Scientology Vol. 1, p. 418

You can get a much better fee — I tell you as auditors quite frankly — it's much easier to get a great deal of money out of somebody who's on a down spiral into becoming MEST than it is to get money out of somebody who is going on an up spiral toward becoming theta.
-- "Philadelphia Doctorate Course" #15 (1952)

His claims about Scientology:

Scientology is the only specific (cure) for radiation (atomic bomb) burns.
-- All About Radiation (1952) p. 109

You are only three or four hours from taking your glasses off for keeps.
-- "Eyesight and glasses" in Dianetic Auditor's Bulletin Vol. 2, No. 7, (January 1952)

Twenty-five hours of Scientology by an auditor who fairly understands how to process arthritis can be said to produce an invariable alleviation of the condition. Some cases, even severe ones, have responded in as little as two hours of processing, according to reports from auditors in the field.
-- Journal of Scientology Issue 1-G, (1952)

Leukemia is evidently psychosomatic in origin and at least eight cases of leukemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics after medicine had traditionally given up. The source of leukemia has been reported to be an engram containing the phrase 'It turns my blood to water.'
-- Journal of Scientology Issue 15-G (1953)

Not smoking enough will cause lung cancer! If anybody is getting a cancerous activity in the lung, the probabilities are that it's radiation dosage coupled with the fact that he smokes. And what it does is start to run out the radiation dosage, don't you see.
-- Saint Hill Special Briefing Course 35 (19 July 1961)

Advanced Courses are the most valuable service on the planet. Life insurance, houses, cars, stocks, bonds, college savings, all are transitory and impermanent ... There is nothing to compare with Advanced Courses. They are infinitely valuable and transcend time itself.
-- On his Operating Thetan Courses, in Flag Mission Order 375 (1970)

Arthritis vanishes, myopia gets better, heart illness decreases, asthma disappears, stomachs function properly and the whole catalog of illnesses goes away and stays away.
-- 1987 Edition of Dianetics : The Modern Science of Mental Health (1950)p. 72

On his methods of dealing with critics:

Now, get this as a technical fact, not a hopeful idea. Every time we have investigated the background of a critic of Scientology, we have found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under existing law. We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have criminal pasts.
-- "Critics of Scientology" (5 November 1967)

The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.
-- A Manual on the Dissemination of Material (1955)

If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace.
-- Dept. of Govt. Affairs policy letter (15 August 1960)

A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind and actions taken against them are not punishable.
-- "Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists" policy letter (1 March 1965)

This is the correct procedure: Spot who is attacking us. Start investigating them promptly for felonies or worse using our own professionals, not outside agencies. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them. Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press. Don't ever tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way.
-- "Attacks on Scientology" policy letter (25 February 1966)

ENEMY: SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.
-- "Penalties for Lower Conditions" policy letter (18 October 1967)

The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations.
This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP.
-- "Cancellation of Fair Game" policy letter (21 October 1968)

A psychiatrist today has the power to (1) take a fancy to a woman (2) lead her to take wild treatment as a joke (3) drug and shock her to temporary insanity (4) incarnate [sic] her (5) use her sexually (6) sterilize her to prevent conception (7) kill her by a brain operation to prevent disclosure. And all with no fear of reprisal. Yet it is rape and murder… We want at least one bad mark on every psychiatrist in England, a murder, an assault, or a rape or more than one… This is Project Psychiatry. We will remove them.
-- Confidential memo "Project Psychiatry" (22 February 1966)

(I guess that last one explains some of Tom Cruise's more bizarre pronouncements)

If this guy wasn't a lying snake-oil salesman who founded a criminal organization, I don't know what that would look like.