Is scientology a cult or religion?

[goodwithoutgod]

As I understand it...

The official Scientology organization is composed of a number of “levels�. One begins as a “preclear� & works their way up. One must purchase virtually every service crucial to advancement directly from the "church" & at staggering prices. "Auditing", for example, is purchased in 12½ hour blocks, costing anywhere from $200-$750 for introductory sessions to between $8,000 & $9,000 for advanced sessions. Basically, Scientology claims to possess exclusive knowledge of the path to religious redemption & then charges obscene amounts of money for every tiny incremental step towards this end. $380,000 is a conservative estimate for the total cost of moving all the way up the Scientology hierarchal ladder.

At level OT III (Operating Thetan Level 3), some very strange & fiercely guarded secrets are imparted upon worthy members who have paid enough money to advance to such a level (and no, this isn't a joke): The evil alien ruler Xenu killed millions of aliens (Thetans) from around the universe by kidnapping them, bringing them to earth in golden DC-8 “space-planes�, stacking them around volcanoes & blowing them up by dropping “h-bombs� into the volcanoes. Scientologists believe the souls of these aliens (these souls are "Body Thetans") were captured, brainwashed & released; they then attached themselves to our ancestors (and according to Scientology’s belief in Thetan immortality, they also attached to us during “past lives�) & cause many of our mental & physical ills to this day. Auditing is said to “clear� us of these Body Thetans as well as the “mental implants� they supposedly impose on our minds.

The purpose of achieving the highest level is to be able to view the final document, because our feeble human brains can not read it without proper preparation without exploding...interesting thing is, it is on the internet, and I posted the synapsis above....I read it, and my brain didnt explode thankfully.

This has quite a healthy financial business model. But I wonder how the community at large views it? Cult, or religion?

[Aetixintro]

Here's the presentation of non-cult Scientology that a religious movement built on something very admirable: non-authoritarian in nature and more...

THE AIMS OF SCIENTOLOGY
Written by L. Ron Hubbard in September 1965.

A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where Man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of Scientology.

Source: http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scie ... ology.html.

Please, add the Basics, incl. The Way to Happiness and A New Slant on Life, then add the very excellent book, Scientology 0 - 8, The Book of Basics.

Inside Book of Basics you find something very special, p. 133: the "S" column that comments on the "Ethic Level" and "down there" with "Tone Scale" 1.1 and 0.5, it reads: "Sex criminals. Negative ethics. Deviously dishonest. Perverts honesty without reason." and "Non-existent. Not thinking. Obeying anyone. [Understood very negatively, obeying the hideous, I suspect.]. On top, then, 4.0, "Bases ethics on reason. Very high ethic level."

Great or what?

----
(Edit:)
The Basic Books, no more than 6 - 8 when I bought them: http://www.bridgepub.com/store/catalog/ ... index.html.

The reasoning for Non-Cult Scientology:
Why Scientology can be described as religious (and not cult)

Scientology, for removing petty quarrel below the worth of the readers of this discussion page, can be described as religious out of these reasons:

1. That it has a goal for humanity or sentience of inifinity, by the 8th dynamic.

2. That it has a special standing ascribed to human beings beyond being animals, that is, how it describes people as „Thetans“, people with body and soul.

3. It elevates or describes human beings within a definite ethical context, i.e., something along the 10 commandments for this inifinity to be achieved.
- also see „Aims of Scientology“.

4. It abides to certain common corpus as movement that can plausibly be followed by everybody, also the autonomy-principle for its members, New Slant on Life, pp. 33 onwards.
- this point also removes, along with the others, that Scientology can ever be a cult in the true sense. A signal for this is its churches and missions always placed decently with the cities, usually the capitals too, as matter of street location and other.

Further:
"Picked up from the internet".

There is another non-cult consideration of Scientology that has a similar standing to the opinion-polling of 1000 people from the Social Sciences, it has to do with the number of members. That, regardless of the negative view of Scientology, a membermass that has reached a scope with more than 100 Churches and Missions around the planet, with a ship, Freewinds, and all from appx. 3 members to 30 million members or more, can't, simply CAN NOT, be described as cult, that the words on the Scientology Ethics by "The Way to Happiness" - "A Common Sense Guide to Better Living".

That we who are with Scientology can now easily deflect/dismiss any criticism against what we believe in and that a simple word for this to fx. the Cult Awareness Network can be made as a pre-emptive measure. That we stand absolutely defended under L. Ron Hubbard's brilliant contribution to human kind!

As much as the Mormons are known to only/mostly reside in Utah, so is Scientology also a big undertaking:

Bringing Scientology to the World

The new 185,000-square-foot Church of Scientology International Dissemination and Distribution Center is a one-of-a-kind printing and production facility. It houses manufacturing, distribution and administration all under one roof and is manned entirely by Church staff members. This new Center generates dissemination materials for the more than 10,000 Scientology Churches, Missions and affiliated groups worldwide, enabling these organizations to meet the unprecedented demand for Scientology services and programs.

Source: http://www.scientology.org/churches.html.
About: http://www.scientology.org/churches/bri ... world.html.

A list of the Churches and other by Scientology:

United States of America
http://www.scientology.org/churches/reg ... erica.html

United Kingdom
http://www.scientology.org/churches/reg ... ngdom.html

Latin America
http://www.scientology.org/churches/reg ... erica.html

Europe
http://www.scientology.org/churches/regions/europe.html

Canada
http://www.scientology.org/churches/regions/canada.html

Asia & Oceania
http://www.scientology.org/churches/reg ... eania.html

Africa
http://www.scientology.org/churches/regions/africa.html

FLAG LAND BASE, 3:
http://www.scientology.org/churches/flag-land-base.html

One, fx.: THE FORT HARRISON
http://www.scientology.org/churches/fla ... rison.html

PS: Scientology thus in no way fits into the small mindedness by the above comment from 10CC. That I think he should apologise "to the many" behind such large organisation of Church.

----
(Edit:) There's more to L. Ron Hubbard too:
http://www.lronhubbard.org/awards-and-r ... uthor.html, noting 4 Guiness World Records.
"The World's Most Published and Most Translated Author" - http://mediaresources.lronhubbard.org/press/page08.htm. With added: "The total sales of Hubbard's fiction and non-fiction works have surpassed 230 million copies with 19 New York Times best-sellers."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_wo ... on_Hubbard - take any quote.

To comment on this last and "very powerful url", http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/,

Data (1) (1)
The head of the Galactic
Confederation (76 planets around
larger stars visible from here)
(founded 95,000,000 yrs ago, very space opera)
solved overpopulation (250 billion ...

- Yes, L. Ron Hubbard has been writing sci-fi literature as he's entitled by US constitution. End.

So to end this, by the above text of mine, that the above critics of Scientology are nowhere near to deliver criticism that represents anything to the "Aims of Scientology". The criticism above is valueless. And some people can actually read "peace" when it says "peace" in the text!

Bye, bye! "Is scientology a cult or religion?" is joke of a discussion.

[cnorman18]

Aetixintro:

Please explain -- or attempt to explain away -- the documented direct quotes from the writings of L. Ron Hubbard that I posted in my last.

All the propaganda in the world won't make those go away, and you don't get to pretend that they don't exist.

Good luck.

[help3434]

[Replying to post 1 by goodwithoutgod]

Scientology is an interesting subject. Is there any other religion that came out of thin air from one guy and is not based on a older religion or tradition?

[goodwithoutgod]

Aetixintro:

Please explain -- or attempt to explain away -- the documented direct quotes from the writings of L. Ron Hubbard that I posted in my last.

All the propaganda in the world won't make those go away, and you don't get to pretend that they don't exist.

Good luck.

nice previous post by the way...isn't it interesting how an adult, assumedly educated, could even attempt to defend this atrocity of a religion, basically an outright scam, money sink if you will, while they maintain a suite of lawyers who attack any naysayer...as you pointed out, the best evidence is the creators own quotes...but wave all that aside, it is a great religion, according to some..

[Aetixintro]

When I think about it, as you never have the book to show for or fail to say that they have common-sense ethics or beautiful ethics or fail to read their books at all, I understand very well how YOU do not fit into the ecumenics!

Take an example, The Way to Happiness, apparently loathed by you for no reason at all...
http://www.thewaytohappiness.org/#/precepts

Leading question: what is the corrupt mind?

Bye.

PS: L. Ron Hubbard and money opportunites. If L. Ron Hubbard is gifted and a great leader, should he not have money for it? As you're at it, why not declare that "Religion is the opium for people too?" (Karl Marx!)

[cnorman18]

When I think about it, as you never have the book to show for or fail to say that they have common-sense ethics or beautiful ethics....

"Ethics"?

Do those "ethics" include blatantly false claims about the health benefits of Scientology and scorched-earth, slanderous and vicious tactics against any who criticize?

or fail to read their books at all...

My money does not go to phonies, charlatans and criminals.

,...I understand very well how YOU do not fit into the ecumenics!

?

You must be using that word in some special Scientology sense...

ec·u·men·ics noun plural but singular in construction \-ˈme-niks\

Definition of ECUMENICS

: the study of the nature, mission, problems, and strategy of the Christian church from the perspective of its ecumenical character

Speak English. It's the language we use on this forum.

Take an example, The Way to Happiness, apparently loathed by you for no reason at all...
http://www.thewaytohappiness.org/#/precepts

Why would I want to spend money to see propaganda from an organization that promotes blatant lies about the health benefits of its phony teachings?

Explain the quotations from Hubbard and then I'll listen to what you have to say. Keep ignoring them or pretending they don't exist, and you're dead in the water with everyone here. Count on it.

Leading question: what is the corrupt mind?

Hubbard's is a good example.

Bye.

'Bye.

Yes, leaving is your best tactic when you have no explanations for your "leader's" obvious dishonesty and proudly displayed arrogance and ruthlessness.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

PS: L. Ron Hubbard and money opportunites. If L. Ron Hubbard is gifted and a great leader, should he not have money for it?

First we have to establish that L. Ron Hubbard was a "great leader" and not a ruthless, lying crook. He looks to be a lot closer to Al Capone than Mohandas Gandhi to me.

As you're at it, why not declare that "Religion is the opium for people too?" (Karl Marx!)

Who's talking about "religion"? We're talking about what appears to be an organized-crime syndicate.

You have not explained or justified a single one of the documented quotes from your "gifted great leader." Not one.

And by the way -- how much have YOU paid into this obvious scam?

[Aetixintro]

The selective mind of cnorman18 - ecumenism...

Cultural Dictionary
ecumenism [( ek -yoo-muh-niz-uhm, i- kyooh -muh-nizuhm)]

A movement promoting cooperation and better understanding among different religious groups or denominations.

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

And with a link too, just for QUALITY: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ecumenism.

Criminals... What about liars?!

Bye. 2nd.

[cnorman18]

The selective mind of cnorman18 - ecumenism...

Cultural Dictionary
ecumenism [( ek -yoo-muh-niz-uhm, i- kyooh -muh-nizuhm)]

A movement promoting cooperation and better understanding among different religious groups or denominations.

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

And with a link too, just for QUALITY: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ecumenism.

As a former Methodist minister, I am quite familiar with "ecumenism" -- but that is not the word you used. "Ecumenics"? Never heard of it before -- and I don't see what either has to do with the Scientology racket. Why would ANY actual religious group or denomination want to "cooperate" with a criminal enterprise that makes outrageous claims of making diseases magically vanish? That calculates how to squeeze more money out of people on a "downward spiral"? That viciously advocates "destroying" anyone who criticizes it or complains, and by any means? Phfft.

Criminals... What about liars?!

My question exactly. What ABOUT L. Ron Hubbard and his blatant, transparent, and obvious lies?

Till you justify or explain the direct, documented quotes from your "great leader," you're spinning your wheels here. He stands condemned as a conscious, deliberate, calculating LIAR, and thus a fake and a charlatan, out of his own mouth, and you have not addressed those issues at all, nor even tried to.

Oh -- and if you're clumsily implying that I am lying, about ANYTHING, please prove that accusation. If not -- well, what was the point of that question?

Bye. 2nd.

Phffft. 2nd.

[Aetixintro]

L. Ron Hubbard has been making thoughts on Ethics... Who are you, what do you have to show for? We think "some dude, next to nothing and most certainly nowhere near a sales-World-Record by Guiness.

Let's cite them too:

Two books, one short and easily read:
http://www.thewaytohappiness.org/thewaytohappiness.html - THE 21 PRECEPTS OF THE WAY TO HAPPINESS - all over Morality
http://www.bridgepub.com/store/catalog/ ... cover.html - Here, then, is a brand-new look, a way for an individual to pull oneself up, for a society to reverse its downward slide, for Man to ascend to the heights of a dreamed-for destiny. For contained in this book are the breakthroughs that bring understanding to the subjects of right and wrong, good and bad, death and survival:
The Basics of Ethics and Justice - and the breakthroughs that untangle these long confused subjects.
Right and Wrong - and how to determine the greatest good for the greatest number.
The Conditions of Existence from Confusion to [personal - as ability] Power - and their Formulas for application that are the monitoring formulas of livingness itself.
The Social and Anti-Social Personalities - and how to detect the bad from the good and get rid of the suppression in your life.
The Third Party Law revealing the true cause of conflict - and how to detect and remove it in your life.
The Scientology Ethics and Justice the first system based not on punishment, but on truth and reason.

We hope you can finish them both and you do not need to "place debt on your home for it either"!

Let's see where the critics scramble next...

PS: Code of honour too: http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scie ... honor.html.
PS2: The Books of Basics suggest, by the Scientology Pyramid by gravity point code, that they are what holds Scientology grounded, positively speaking, that it can be related to by the public by its sheer appeal!

[goodwithoutgod]

L. Ron Hubbard has been making thoughts on Ethics... Who are you, what do you have to show for? We think "some dude, next to nothing and most certainly nowhere near a sales-World-Record by Guiness.

Let's cite them too:

Two books, one short and easily read:
http://www.thewaytohappiness.org/thewaytohappiness.html - THE 21 PRECEPTS OF THE WAY TO HAPPINESS - all over Morality
http://www.bridgepub.com/store/catalog/ ... cover.html - Here, then, is a brand-new look, a way for an individual to pull oneself up, for a society to reverse its downward slide, for Man to ascend to the heights of a dreamed-for destiny. For contained in this book are the breakthroughs that bring understanding to the subjects of right and wrong, good and bad, death and survival:
The Basics of Ethics and Justice - and the breakthroughs that untangle these long confused subjects.
Right and Wrong - and how to determine the greatest good for the greatest number.
The Conditions of Existence from Confusion to [personal - as ability] Power - and their Formulas for application that are the monitoring formulas of livingness itself.
The Social and Anti-Social Personalities - and how to detect the bad from the good and get rid of the suppression in your life.
The Third Party Law revealing the true cause of conflict - and how to detect and remove it in your life.
The Scientology Ethics and Justice the first system based not on punishment, but on truth and reason.

We hope you can finish them both and you do not need to "place debt on your home for it either"!

Let's see where the critics scramble next...

PS: Code of honour too: http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scie ... honor.html.
PS2: The Books of Basics suggest, by the Scientology Pyramid by gravity point code, that they are what holds Scientology grounded, positively speaking, that it can be related to by the public by its sheer appeal!

Gullible: easily persuaded to believe something; credulous.
synonyms: credulous, naive, overtrusting, overtrustful, easily deceived, easily taken in, exploitable, dupable, impressionable, unsuspecting, unsuspicious, unwary, ingenuous, innocent, inexperienced, unworldly, green; informalwet behind the ears, born yesterday


So if I am to understand you correctly, you choose to wave aside the plethora of facts that show this cult to be financially based, as per the creator's own words...unhealthy in its complete ownership and control of its "flock", and instead grasp onto the few books or literature they put out (snow job) to suck in those who are susceptible to easy manipulation? You can't possibly truly believe and/or support this right? You are poking fun, must be, or trying to make some errant point of "respect all beliefs, no matter how ludicrous they are".

So under that perspective, if the church of satan (does that even exist? lol never looked into to be honest) put out "how to take control of your finances", and "100 ways to live healthier!" or "fiber, is it good or bad?"...etc, you would say "they put out good books, thus they must be a real solid religion"...no, sorry to burst your bubble. Since I am new to this little huddle of debaters, I am trying real hard not to rock the boat...but I can not sit here and listen to you attempt to sell scientology as a positive thing....if you truly believe that...wow, what do you say to that? I am actually speechless for once...um research my friend, you are heading down a rabbit hole.