Another question for the Jewish practicioners amoung us,

[Elijah John]

I have always admired Judaism for the thoughtful interpretations of Scripture, the teachings of absolute monotheism, and the elevation or actions and attitudes over belief. In general, the premium Jews tend to put on Reason and learning.

I have been reading a book by Trude Weiss-Morarin entitled "Judaism and Christianity, the differences"

She speaks of the Eternal Torah, and states that it is against Judiasm that ANY of the Torah given to Moses should be changed, added to or diminished, modified in any way.

So if I am understanding her right, does that include the sanction of stoning Sabbath breakers to death? Is that one of the 613 laws of Judaism? (Do I have the number right?)

I find it hard to rationalize or spiritualize that law.(If it is a law) Or to even read it symbolically.

Could anyone clarify this for me? Give me a deeper meaning or clear up my misunderstanding?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to cnorman18]

Thank you Charles.

I do like that humane and thoughtful approach, but like I said earlier, it is still somewhat disturbing to me that Moses even listed the death penalty for such seemingly or relatively minor crimes, or for religious (as opposed to civil), criminal cases.

But I do realize that the two overlapped in Bible times, the civil and the religous'

But the thoughtful approach of the Rabbis, in interpreting and implementing these statutes is one of the reasons I admire Judaism.

I also admire modern Catholicism, and Liberal Protestantism for their use of Reason in their approach to Scripture. Their heritage of applied Reason with thinkers such as Aquinas etc. Don't always agree in every instance, but I give 'em credit for trying and for their humane approach.

[Thruit]

Elijah John posted,
I find it hard to rationalize or spiritualize that law.(If it is a law) Or to even read it symbolically.

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works and in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. He.4:4-5

But Jesus said God is still working:

But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Jn.5:17

Then again, Hebrews says:

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. He.4:10

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. He.4:11

So what do we have?

God rested the 7th day.
Believers who enter His rest have ceased from works.
Believers are told to work to enter Gods rest.
And God is still working.

Because of these passages, God resting after creation on.the weekly Sabbath is for the believer symbolic of entering rest in the afterlife.

A death penalty for working on the weekly Sabbath then mean an unbeliever despised the promises of God and this agrees with scripture where entering the promised land is also symbolic of the Kingdom of God.

And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Heb.3:18-19

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 12 by Thruit]

I don't buy into the assumption that every sin or infraction of the Law, is "disbelief" or "rebellion" against God, any more than a speeding violation is a treason against the govenment.

[cnorman18]

[Replying to post 12 by Thruit]

The book of Hebrews is entirely without authority and irrelevant to Jews, as are all the books of the New Testament. Any allegations of anything "symbolizing" anything else are also without authority, even where the Hebrew Bible is concerned.

[Thruit]

Elijah John posted,
I don't buy into the assumption that every sin or infraction of the Law, is "disbelief" or "rebellion" against God...

I don't either, unless you know what you're doing is contrary to Gods commandment and you simply don't care.

[Thruit]

cnorman18 posted,
The book of Hebrews is entirely without authority and irrelevant to Jews, as are all the books of the New Testament....

Except for the Jews who wrote them and the Prophets they quoted and the Jews who have believed it throughout the centuries.

[Thruit]

Oh yeah... and the most famous sage who ever walked on Planet Earth. He's a Jew too!

[cnorman18]

[Replying to post 17 and 18 by Thruit]

Judaism and Christianity are not the same religion. When one begins to worship Jesus as God, one has stopped practicing the Jewish religion -- even though one may still be ethnically Jewish. Those are not synonymous.

[Thruit]

Judaism and Christianity are not the same religion. When one begins to worship Jesus as God, one has stopped practicing the Jewish religion -- even though one may still be ethnically Jewish. Those are not synonymous.

You know my friend, after reading how Jewish Jesus defined His own religion, you can't imagine how awkward your statement is.

[otseng]

Except for the Jews who wrote them and the Prophets they quoted and the Jews who have believed it throughout the centuries.

Oh yeah... and the most famous sage who ever walked on Planet Earth. He's a Jew too!

You know my friend, after reading how Jewish Jesus defined His own religion, you can't imagine how awkward your statement is.

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