Why is homophobia tolerated here?

Haven · Post by **Haven** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:52 pm

If a person were to join this forum making racist comments, using and implying racial slurs, and saying that racial minorities were disgusting, evil, and inherently inferior, they would certainly be swiftly banned (and rightly so!). This person could say the same things about women, people from certain countries, people with disabilities, and the reaction would be the same -- a swift ban.

However, on this forum -- which prides itself on civility -- people can make bigoted and untrue comments about lesbians, gays, and bisexuals with absolutely no consequences. Not so much as a warning. Certain members have been making blatantly homophobic statements for years without even a moderator comment.

Why the double standard? Why is racism banned, but homophobia and heterosexual supremacy tolerated? Are LGB people somehow a less-deserving minority?

Haven · Post by **Haven** » Tue May 20, 2014 1:46 pm

[color=olive]Joab[/color] wrote: Very recently a poster was given a warning for using the term anti-gay. Considering the misrepresentations promoted by one poster concerning gays without sanction I find this discriminatory. Just my opinion.

Exactly. If person A is allowed to slam person B's identity, then it's only fair that person B is allowed to expose person A's "arguments" for the fallacious and hateful farces they are.

If a statement is anti-gay, then calling it "anti-gay" is not uncivil, it's truthful.

RottenHead · Post by **RottenHead** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:31 pm

come on, can I suggest that these people are actually believing that God is supportive of their intolerance. most people read the bible as being against homosexuality so of course they are going to get their blood up over it, they actually think it's right to do so! how crazy is that?!

I forgive them for it because it's stupid and obviously a wrong way to treat people because it's highly judgmental and has NOTHING to do with them. So they have clearly just given themselves permission to be sh**ty to people and that is just childish. How can you be mad at a silly child, I can't I just can't. I feel bad for them laboring is such a wrong direction.

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:43 pm

otseng wrote:
Haven wrote: Homosexuality, like blackness, Hispanicness, or femaleness, is a biological trait, a state of being (this is backed up by several psychological, endocrinological, and neuroscientific studies).
This is debateable, which we did debate that here.

Why, on a forum that preaches neutrality, civility, and respect for persons, is it acceptable to attack one immutable characteristic but not another? Why the double standard?
It is also debateable that homosexuality (or even sexual preferences in general) is immutable. In that same thread, there are instances of people choosing to be gay and becoming gay.

I do not subscribe to the claim that homosexuality is in the same category as being a particular race or gender, so I see it as fair game to attack homosexuality.

I'm not going to change anyone's opinion, but want to go on record that homosexuality is indeed in the same category as race and gender. The evidence is overwhelming that it is an immutable trait, similar to gender. One's gender is not always easily determined either. We simply have too many cases where it is clearly not in a person's self interest to have a same sex attraction, but those folks [frequently Christian politicians and Ministers] simply cannot live the lie they want to live.

DanieltheDragon · Post by **DanieltheDragon** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:24 pm

[Replying to post 13 by Danmark]

I kinda have to agree. Its tricky though because other people simply don't believe this. Their belief is it is a choice or a system of "belief". Therefore they don't see that somethings being said are offensive. They believe they are true statements. To them LGBT's can be an offensive state of being. That being said I think there are some fair points being brought up in this thread and frankly some threads regarding LGBT's can be really offensive to these people. I think there was one user who is now banned that suggested we should execute and put homosexuals in camps. That is some pretty offensive stuff that shouldn't be tolerated but was.

It's fine to debate things like is homosexuality a choice and stuff like that and I think we can have that debate. I also think we can leave out the homophobic comments while doing it.

bluethread · Post by **bluethread** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:52 pm

Danmark wrote: I'm not going to change anyone's opinion, but want to go on record that homosexuality is indeed in the same category as race and gender. The evidence is overwhelming that it is an immutable trait, similar to gender. One's gender is not always easily determined either. We simply have too many cases where it is clearly not in a person's self interest to have a same sex attraction, but those folks [frequently Christian politicians and Ministers] simply cannot live the lie they want to live.

Well, it has been established through genetic testing that race is not an immutable trait. Clarence Page of the Chicago Sun Times had research done to follow up on the "roots" concept. It turned out that even though he has identified himself as "black" all his life, he is actually genetically "white". Also, his "white" coworker is more genetically "black" than he is. I think, the whole establishment of people groups based on "race", "gender" and "sexual identity" is just sociological sophistry for the purpose of promoting grievance politics. Not, that my opinion is going to change anyone's mind either.

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:26 pm

bluethread wrote:
Danmark wrote: I'm not going to change anyone's opinion, but want to go on record that homosexuality is indeed in the same category as race and gender. The evidence is overwhelming that it is an immutable trait, similar to gender. One's gender is not always easily determined either. We simply have too many cases where it is clearly not in a person's self interest to have a same sex attraction, but those folks [frequently Christian politicians and Ministers] simply cannot live the lie they want to live.
Well, it has been established through genetic testing that race is not an immutable trait. Clarence Page of the Chicago Sun Times had research done to follow up on the "roots" concept. It turned out that even though he has identified himself as "black" all his life, he is actually genetically "white". Also, his "white" coworker is more genetically "black" than he is. I think, the whole establishment of people groups based on "race", "gender" and "sexual identity" is just sociological sophistry for the purpose of promoting grievance politics. Not, that my opinion is going to change anyone's mind either.

This substantiates my point that homosexuality, like gender and race are equally immutable. Thank you.

Whatever Clarence Page's

[/img]
actual race may be, he will be treated as an African American. That is the very point, that people are judged on their appearance and predilections, some of which are immutable. What the Christian bigots have done both about race and homosexuality, is to hold people morally accountable for things about themselves over which they have no control.

Anthropologists may agree that there is no such thing as 'race,' because we are all one species. However, that does not deter people from racial discrimination based on their unscientific consideration of race and their excuse that 'The Bible Tells Me So.'
http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gab_racism.htm

Christianity's well documented racism and hatred of Jews and others is an abomination to the teachings of Jesus. Neither racism nor homophobia has any place on this forum nor any other venue for decent society.

When I quit this forum it will be because of the 'Christian' inspired bigotry that is tolerated here. I reiterate that my understanding of the teachings of Jesus are very far removed from the bigotry that some 'Christians' use the Bible as an excuse for.

BTW, I would appreciate documentation for your claim that Clarence Page is "genetically 'white'."

bluethread · Post by **bluethread** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:53 pm

Danmark wrote:
bluethread wrote:
Danmark wrote: I'm not going to change anyone's opinion, but want to go on record that homosexuality is indeed in the same category as race and gender. The evidence is overwhelming that it is an immutable trait, similar to gender. One's gender is not always easily determined either. We simply have too many cases where it is clearly not in a person's self interest to have a same sex attraction, but those folks [frequently Christian politicians and Ministers] simply cannot live the lie they want to live.
Well, it has been established through genetic testing that race is not an immutable trait. Clarence Page of the Chicago Sun Times had research done to follow up on the "roots" concept. It turned out that even though he has identified himself as "black" all his life, he is actually genetically "white". Also, his "white" coworker is more genetically "black" than he is. I think, the whole establishment of people groups based on "race", "gender" and "sexual identity" is just sociological sophistry for the purpose of promoting grievance politics. Not, that my opinion is going to change anyone's mind either.
This substantiates my point that homosexuality, like gender and race are equally immutable. Thank you.

Whatever Clarence Page's
[/img]
actual race may be, he will be treated as an African American. That is the very point, that people are judged on their appearance and predilections, some of which are immutable. What the Christian bigots have done both about race and homosexuality, is to hold people morally accountable for things about themselves over which they have no control.

You see it as immutable because you buy into the concept. I judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin, as MLK suggested. Character is defined by ones actions. Therefore, if someone acts "black", I treat them as "black". If they act "white", I treat them as "white". The fact that I have to speak this way is silly and is all based on the tribalism that has been fostered by the sociological political industry.

Anthropologists may agree that there is no such thing as 'race,' because we are all one species. However, that does not deter people from racial discrimination based on their unscientific consideration of race and their excuse that 'The Bible Tells Me So.'
http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gab_racism.htm

Christianity's well documented racism and hatred of Jews and others is an abomination to the teachings of Jesus. Neither racism nor homophobia has any place on this forum nor any other venue for decent society.

When I quit this forum it will be because of the 'Christian' inspired bigotry that is tolerated here. I reiterate that my understanding of the teachings of Jesus are very far removed from the bigotry that some 'Christians' use the Bible as an excuse for.

BTW, I would appreciate documentation for your claim that Clarence Page is "genetically 'white'."[/quote]

Haven · Post by **Haven** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:04 am

I still think the homophobia here is a bit out of hand. The argument for allowing people to criticize homosexuality is one thing, but using a disrespectful tone to do so (like calling marriages between same-sex couples "marriages" [putting the word in quotation marks to say it isn't real marriage]) seems to go against the purpose of the forum. If the topic of homosexuality is allowed to be discussed at all, it should remain civil and not just degenerate into gay-bashing. Remember, calling people "Christian" is banned here, so speaking of gay "marriages" should be as well.

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:31 am

Haven wrote: I still think the homophobia here is a bit out of hand. The argument for allowing people to criticize homosexuality is one thing, but using a disrespectful tone to do so (like calling marriages between same-sex couples "marriages" [putting the word in quotation marks to say it isn't real marriage]) seems to go against the purpose of the forum. If the topic of homosexuality is allowed to be discussed at all, it should remain civil and not just degenerate into gay-bashing. Remember, calling people "Christian" is banned here, so speaking of gay "marriages" should be as well.

Haven, you know I agree with you on this, but I want to clarify something. I frequently put "Christian" in quotation marks. I do this not as an attack on anyone here who claims to be a Christian. But it seems fair to me when I am being highly critical of some, the KKK for example, who call themselves "Christians." I don't think there's anything wrong with putting that word in quotes in some circumstances.

Beyonder · Post by **Beyonder** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:46 am

So what is allowed? I am now confused so I can slander homosexuality? Race? And or religion? I can tell "Personal Attacks" are against the rules and all but what is the major offenses vs minor offenses vs not caring offenses.