As children it's just an imaginary friend

[Sweet~T]

And he isn't very friendly.

So what is the cause for our global mental illness?

[cnorman18]

[Replying to post 40 by no evidence no belief]

A remarkable post.

Denying “cherry picking� while simultaneously admitting it —

I stand by my characterization of the commandments, and I stand by my procedure for arriving to it. I started from commandment 1 and analyzed the first few pages. I just skipped a few of the more boring ones….

And then cherrypicked a few more that you liked, while ignoring a long string of others that immediately followed them because they didn't fit your argument. The facts are obvious...

And you accuse ME of “bearing false witness.�

Moving the goal posts. Going from —

What I can say is that all commandments, punishments, reported activities of the deity, incitements, endorsements, ideas, etc in the Bible fall into three categories:

1) Evil

2) Irrelevant

3) Good but obvious and unnecessary.

and

This is one of the central passages of your religion, where God speaks to your patriarch and tells him how Jews are supposed to live their lives.

To —

I am not referring to them as obvious and unnecessary as they relate to the daily lives of the people who wrote and lived by them. I’m referring to them as obvious and unnecessary when read today as a source of philosophical inspiration.

As for the rest — it’s all pretty much the same as before: your arguments are filled with distortions, twisting, and the repeating of objections already raised and answered, -- with most of my own arguments ignored without response as if they had never been given.

Most notable, perhaps, is the virulent, vehement, and vicious hatred and calculated cruelty exhibited throughout. Your continually repeated comparisons of Judaism to Naziism, and your repetitive and contemptible EQUATING of Jews to Nazis, are prima facie evidence of that hatred.

For examples:

It's kinda of how Hitler's concentration camps weren't completely evil. They had some self-imposed restrictions on what kind of Jews and how many Jews they'd gas. How humane.

Let me guess, you're going to say that they were so nice for letting the slaves rest on the 7th day. What are you going to say next, that the Nazis were nice to the jews for letting them rest on the Sabbath in Auschwitz?

I'm 100% ok with Jews studying it in great detail as a case study in the failures of humanity, just like I'm ok with Germans studying Hitler.

In Nazi Germany it wasn't considered immoral to hold Jews in concentration camps.

It's to be expected that if an ancient israelite or a Nazi soldier where to write their ideas on morality, they would of necessity be filtered by the context they lived in, and while understandable within their lives, they would look appalling to an external observer who hadn't been subject from birth to the ignorance and superstition of the bronze age, or to the hatred and antisemitism of the NAZI party.

I know that it's wrong for me to judge an israelite who would stone his wife to death on their wedding night if she wasn't a virgin, or for me to judge a nazi soldier who would pull the lever on a gas chamber.

Still, if my ancestors were the authors of either the Torah or the Nazi propaganda, I would NOT make that a topic for dinner conversation, I would NOT get together and sing songs with other people who also had ancestors who were authors of the Torah or Nazi propaganda, I would NOT celebrate that.

Neither was the holocaust evil by the standards of the time and place in which Nazi propaganda was written.

The systematic and mechanized mass extermination of innocents was NOT considered, by any stretch of the imagination, "moral" in Europe, or even in Germany, in the 1930s and 1940s as you explicitly claim (which is why the practice was kept as secret as possible from the German public).

And, for the record, there was no Sabbath for Jews in Auschwitz or in any of the other camps. The very idea is ludicrous.

That sort of thing is beneath contempt. Your continually repeated comparisons of Judaism to Naziism, of Jews to Nazis, and of the Torah to Nazi propaganda, are very clearly deliberate insults and calculated provocations of the most vicious kind -- as opposed to cogent and reasonable arguments in a civil debate. What better way to stick a rhetorical thumb in the eye of a Jew than by saying, over and over again and in as offensive a manner as possible, that Jews are just like Nazis?

Those gleeful little twists of the knife are yet another reason not to continue wasting my time with this “conversation,� which has become little more than an excuse for you to continue parading your vicious hatred and unbridled contempt for religion in all its forms.

Oh, and as for this —

Please source your claim that the death penalty was less common in ancient israel than it is in modern Texas. Anything short of linking a reputable source will be considered a concession that you bore false witness.

Look here.. There are many more such sources; they aren’t hard to find — if one is actually interested in learning something, as opposed to merely finding ammunition to support one’s own predetermined vehement oppositions and hatreds, of course.

I don’t care to continue arguments with hopelessly fanatical, hate-obsessed ideologues — and before you accuse me of personally attacking you, I’ll add that I don’t care to continue any arguments with you, either, whether that describes your approach and attitude or not. I don't know your heart; I only see your arguments, which could not, in my view, be more clearly shaped by hatred, or more calculatedly personally offensive.

And that, I think, is enough.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 38 by no evidence no belief]




You see the laws as a historical document, much like Mein Kampf.

I understand that ancient Jews, and Germans during world war 2, lived in very violent and brutal times. It's to be expected that if an ancient israelite or a Nazi soldier where to write their ideas on morality, they would of necessity be filtered by the

“Evil�? Not by the standards of the time in which they were written — only to YOU, judging by the standards of OUR time and place.

Neither was the holocaust evil by the standards of the time and place in which Nazi propaganda was written. If you're going to adopt moral relativism, please be consistent and adopt it across the board.

Moderator Warning


To compare the behavior of the ancients (which may or may not have even happened) to modern day atrocities of Nazism, is reprehensible at worst, and insensitive at best.

Please review our Rules.

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