The war on Christmas

[Aximili23]

Many of you have probably heard of the so-called "War on Christmas":

Lines drawn in battle over Christmas
Secular Extremists Still Lying About Their War on Christmas
What 'War on Christmas'?

I have my own opinion on this matter, but as a non-American I'd first like to hear what you guys think. Is there really a war being deliberately waged against the acknowledgement of the christian holiday? Or is this a ploy of the conservative christian right? Has political correctness gone too far and diminished the joy of Christmas? Or is acceptance of other cultures and traditions more in keeping with the spirit of the holiday?

[The Persnickety Platypus]

It is an expansion of the infamous right-wing theocratic advance against the separation of church and state currently plaquing our country.


Apparently some people cannot stand the idea that everyone does not choose to erect pine trees in the middle of their living room. So much for religious diversity. What were those founding fathers thinking?

[1John2_26]

The founding fathers that celebrated Christmas or the ones that did not? It does seem like Christians bear a lot of insults that would never be directed at any other culture or religion. I will not shop at stores that "used to" have "Merry Christmas" and have changed it to a holiday greeting. Though Christmas is not all that important in terms of religious experience, the matter is one of an almost hateful intensity against Christianity that I have noticed develope over the years.

[MagusYanam]

There are those that have definite problems with Christianity in our society, though they are definitely not the majority and don't carry a lot of influence in politics. In my own experience, I've never been chastised for wishing someone 'Merry Christmas'. Usually I have the greeting returned, even by people who don't celebrate it.

I don't see any real animosity toward Christianity in general or the Church in this country, though many intellectuals and scientists (many Christians - like my parents - among them) are fed up with right-wing Christian sectarian groups trying to bind and gag them, as it were. Or mug them, in the case of University of Kansas professor Paul Mirecki.

Now, Mirecki might not be the most admirable of professors and his comments about 'fundies' were indeed rather puerile, but one thing is sure: I haven't heard news of any creationists being beaten up on the street because of the ridiculous things they are wont to say on a daily basis.

[Aximili23]

It does seem like Christians bear a lot of insults that would never be directed at any other culture or religion. I will not shop at stores that "used to" have "Merry Christmas" and have changed it to a holiday greeting. Though Christmas is not all that important in terms of religious experience, the matter is one of an almost hateful intensity against Christianity that I have noticed develope over the years.

That's exactly the point. According to you, this whole war on Christmas is a an attack on or insult to christianity. But is it? How is acknowledgement of minority winter holidays/traditions an attack on christianity? When a store puts up a sign saying "Happy holidays," that includes Christmas too, doesn't it? The difference isn't that Christians are being excluded or marginalized, but that other traditions are being accepted and acknowledged. How is that a symptom of "hateful intensity"?

[v_octane]

i think the whole idea of christmas as it has become is over-rated. if christians really celebrate christmas as Jesus' birthday, then get rid of all the other crap. there is no attack on christianity, just so called christians wanting to get political power and say so. if you really are a christian, love your neighbor and pray for him, instead of going political about it, like its gonna help change someone's heart. you might make them stop doing what they're doing on the outside, but inside they will still be the same person. according to christianity, only God could change a person's life, not a law that christians try to pass through politics.

this is just some people's desires to be first and be noticed. not the way to do it people, not the way to do it.

God bless..

[Jose]

Is there any logical reason that it should be "anti-Christian" to want to wish people joy and happiness not only for Christmas day itself, but also for New Year's? Is it anti-Christian to want to wish joy and happiness to people who happen not to be Christian, and who have other celebrations at the same time of year? Why is being inclusive anti-Christian? I would have thought it was actually the best way to display truly Christian values.

If we actually think about it, we see that the US is more diverse now than ever before, and inclusivity is even more important. It's no longer valid to pretend that the US is only Christian, and even less valid to pretend that it is, or should be, one particular flavor of Christian. But, it's a good political ploy, if you're down in the polls, and want to energize your "base."

[v_octane]

i agree with you man, wishing people happy holidays is alright. its actually a very good thing, if done from the heart. to love people even not of your belief or understanding is truly a virtuous thing, and christians should be a little quieter in society, especially when it comes to dealing people not of the same religion. if you are the light, let that light shine and the warmth from it also affect other peoples' lives, instead of reflexively hitting back when someone attacks your understanding. only God could change a person's life, not a person, and so i suggest trying to live peacefully with others.

thank you and peace out...[/quote]

[USIncognito]

The founding fathers that celebrated Christmas or the ones that did not?

The founding fathers owned slaves and felt that neither women nor property owners should vote. They also never used a telephone or phonograph, and yet we have an FCC that is considered Constitutional. So what? What does what holiday men in 1776 have to do with American culture in 2005? If it's not a Constitutional issue, why look back on them?

It does seem like Christians bear a lot of insults that would never be directed at any other culture or religion.

Hah! I'm sorry, forgive me for laughing in your face, but claims like this have transended the boundry from persecution complex to farce. You cite one example of a Christian being shot to death in America after some social upheaval like the Sikh's who were murdered after 9/11 - just because they work a turbin like Muslims supposedly do (they don't) and then you can start to make a case.

I will not shop at stores that "used to" have "Merry Christmas" and have changed it to a holiday greeting.

Some people take the whole "sheep" analogy way to far.

Though Christmas is not all that important in terms of religious experience, the matter is one of an almost hateful intensity against Christianity that I have noticed develope over the years.

Grrrrr! I would laugh at the farce, but you just blew up my irony meter... and I'd just had it fixed. Actually what's happened is that a relatively inoccuous shift in the marketplace has been turned into a "wedge issue" that evangelical organizations realize will earn them donations and reactionary blowhards like Bill O'Reilly know will mobilize the "faithful" and distract from other issues.

Why aren't any of these people protesting the degredation of Christmas outraged about the materialism, avarice and gluttony now associated with their holiday? Christmas isn't about the birth of Christ to Wal-Mart and to the jet setters. It's about buying lots of cheap imported toys and consumer electronics. It's about lavish parties with tons of fatty foods and edible centerpieces that go in the trash after the last guest has left. St. Nicholas doesn't represent charity to those less fortunate - he represents Coca-Cola and a gimme gimme mentality that looks to ponies and I-pods to give personal satisfaction. How many Christmas cards will be opened by the spoiled brats of those decrying loudest how no one will wish them Merry Christmas this year only to hear their sainted child piss and moan about how aunt Gertrude didn't include a check or gift card?

And while we're putting the Christ back in Christmas, how about these same folks get outraged enough to take the Paganism out of it? No more holly and mistletoe. And the Christmas tree? Give me a break. Griping about a Yule log not being called a Christmas tree again crosses the farce threshold. And all people who want Dec. 25th to be Christmas again, had better look at Luke. Jesus wasn't born in December. The date itself is a hijacking of a Pagan holiday.

The poor smoldering remains of my irony meter are melting as I note how those most vocal about putting the sacredness and solemnity back into Christmas are guilty of an even more inane farce than those politically correct types who supposedly are making war on it.

[Aximili23]

Here's a review on Amazon for the book "The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought":

I heard about this book and thought I'd check out what the reviews were. I'm really surprised at all the hate-filled and insulting ones that seem to be posted more as a reaction to the subject than to the actual information in the book. "Jeering' and 'mocking' might be the best terms for these one-star reviews. But yet, the problem noted by Gibson does exist. I've been battling it for several years in my children's school districts (we switched through schools of choice). The word 'christmas' is not seen anywhere, and one teacher told me that there was subtle pressure from administrators to avoid any use of the 'c-word.' The problem obviously is not as bad here as in other places, but Gibson's book does shed light on the growing problem of religious censorship in public areas. It's real, it does exist, and it's absolutely illegal. That's why it's time for americans of all stripes to fight back; to say 'Merry Christmas' and to support merchants brave enough not to cave in to the politically correct police. It's far more than just the commercialization of this 'holiday' (how ironic that as they want to stamp out recognization of Dec. 25th, they demand we spend our money like crazy for this 'holiday!' So, I'm buying Gibson's book, and sending copies of it to my school officials, and I'll be wishing everyone a "Merry Christmas." After all, the only people offended by this are those who WANT to be offended. Christmas itself excludes no one, since all are invited to celebrate it, but again, those who want to FEEL excluded can find any excuse, even with a joyfilled, loving holiday like Christmas.

There were two things I found interesting about this review. The first is that it makes more plausible to me the claim of a war being waged against Christmas. This is someone who has personally perceived for several years attempts to quell any mention of Christmas, which sounds just as bad as being totally exclusive in favor of Christmas. Of course, a few personal observations by an individual hardly constitute proof of a conspiracy. More likely, some school administrators have just overly cautious of litigation. Still, I found this person's concern regarding religious censorship to be valid and fair.

But the second interesting thing that struck me about this review is the following sentence:

After all, the only people offended by this are those who WANT to be offended.

Ironically, this sounds like an excellent description of those who become offended by generic holiday greetings, including the reviewer herself.