The war on Christmas

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Aximili23
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The war on Christmas

Post #1

Post by Aximili23 »

Many of you have probably heard of the so-called "War on Christmas":

Lines drawn in battle over Christmas
Secular Extremists Still Lying About Their War on Christmas
What 'War on Christmas'?

I have my own opinion on this matter, but as a non-American I'd first like to hear what you guys think. Is there really a war being deliberately waged against the acknowledgement of the christian holiday? Or is this a ploy of the conservative christian right? Has political correctness gone too far and diminished the joy of Christmas? Or is acceptance of other cultures and traditions more in keeping with the spirit of the holiday?

USIncognito
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Post #11

Post by USIncognito »

Aximili23 wrote:But the second interesting thing that struck me about this review is the following sentence:
After all, the only people offended by this are those who WANT to be offended.
Ironically, this sounds like an excellent description of those who become offended by generic holiday greetings, including the reviewer herself.
You comment about her comment notes how much of a farce this whole issue has become. Some time ago I read a very prescient point - that American conservative talk radio would be nowhere were it not for those who were PO'ed. No, not p***ed off, but the "Perpetually Outraged." I love that phrase because it perfectly sums up the Weltanschauung of most people who listen to and call into such talk radio shows.

They need to be offended. They need to be angry. Constantly. And what makes them the most offended and angry? People possibly being offended or angry as their opinions and attitudes. That's why this whole issue is so ironic I can only describe it as farce.

I mean how dripping with irony is it where people purposefully respond to "Happy Holidays" with "Merry Christmas" when the actual intent of their response isn't to wish a Merry Christmas, but to say "**** You?"

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Post #12

Post by Cephus »

It's really very simple:

Merry Christmas applies only to a certain percentage of the population.
Happy Hanukkah applies only to a certain percentage of the population.
Happy Kwanzaa applies only to a certain percentage of the population.
Happy Holidays applies to EVERYONE.

So instead of getting mad that the store clerks aren't wishing you a happy *ALL OF THEM*, why not just accept that there are more people in the world than just you and deal with it? The stores have more to do than worry about making one tiny group of fundamentalist Christians happy.

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Post #13

Post by Bugmaster »

Cephus wrote:Happy Holidays applies to EVERYONE.
What, even Muslims ? What about Buddhists ?

Ultimately, no matter how you phrase it, someone would be upset. I'm not too worried about it. When people wish me Merry Christmas, I don't go all berserk screaming, "JESUS IS t3h FRAUDZ0RZ !!!" -- I smile and thank them. And when I wish people Happy New Year, most of them similarly accept the greeting in the spirit that it was given.

The War on Christmas (tm) is only waged in the minds of fanatics who have lost the power to comprehend human kindness. Bah humbug to them all.

melikio
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Happy Holidays

Post #14

Post by melikio »

I remember years where far too many people would say, Merry Christmas, and mean very little by it. It was very similar to when some people greet you, and not really give a hoot when they ask: "How are you?"

I personally try to make a practice of REALLY caring when I ask that. And the same goes for the greetings I give throughout the year.

There is little in the "War on Christmas", that is as potent as a person exuding faith, hope and love and receiving the same. And if a BAN on loving others were ever inacted as a law, then all of mankind should be VERY concerned.

If people DO truly love one another (even just a little), that means as much as any celebration, symbol or tradition I can think of.

There is NOTHING that can separate the deep meaning of Christmas, from the hearts of those who truly "believe" (have faith in) the person of Jesus Christ.

-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

1John2_26
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Post #15

Post by 1John2_26 »

So instead of getting mad that the store clerks aren't wishing you a happy *ALL OF THEM*, why not just accept that there are more people in the world than just you and deal with it?
Christians are dealing with it. Look up the founder of Kwaanza and see if he would be so tolerant of dissent or attack. Jewsih people have the ADL to go at insults at a moments notice and Atheists seem to have the most power of all. (Jesus celebrated Hannukah by the way.) Why is it that these tiny little minorities that are mentioned in the "all of them" don't just deal with it? The season IS Christmas. Why the need to horn in on the action?

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Post #16

Post by Cephus »

Bugmaster wrote:
Cephus wrote:Happy Holidays applies to EVERYONE.
What, even Muslims ? What about Buddhists ?
Anyone who is having a holiday, yes. If you're not having a holiday, then ignore it.
The War on Christmas (tm) is only waged in the minds of fanatics who have lost the power to comprehend human kindness. Bah humbug to them all.
Of course it is. It's yet another symptom of Fundamentalist Christian Stupidity (tm) and their attempt to force everyone else out of their "Christian United States".

I wonder what color the sky is in their world.

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Post #17

Post by Cephus »

1John2_26 wrote:Christians are dealing with it. Look up the founder of Kwaanza and see if he would be so tolerant of dissent or attack. Jewsih people have the ADL to go at insults at a moments notice and Atheists seem to have the most power of all. (Jesus celebrated Hannukah by the way.) Why is it that these tiny little minorities that are mentioned in the "all of them" don't just deal with it? The season IS Christmas. Why the need to horn in on the action?
But the season isn't just Christmas and hasn't been for a long, long time. Christians need to get over themselves and realize that they don't have a monopoly on a winter holiday and never did.

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Deal with It

Post #18

Post by melikio »

Christians are dealing with it.
In the context of human relations as they are generally understood, I ask:

How should "Christians" deal with ANY opposition to their beliefs?
Look up the founder of Kwaanza and see if he would be so tolerant of dissent or attack.
Is the founder of "Kwaanza", beholden to the standards of behavior (Christ-like LOVE) which "Christians" should likely be?
Jewsih people have the ADL to go at insults at a moments notice and Atheists seem to have the most power of all.
One problem with some "Christians" in the most practical sense , is that they believe they have the RIGHT or CALLING to force what they believe is God's will upon other people. Instead of applying LOVE as Jesus clearly did and taught, here they come with this "in-your-face" mostly carnal (sometimes visceral) approach that is a hallmark of simply being human... not necessarily OF God or Jesus. I don't condemn most Christians for that (human), but certain people do seem to be unaware that LOVE (the primary and most important spiritual-characteristic of any true Christian or Jesus follower) should be exuded above other qualities. And a large part of the FAILURE of many Christians to have unbelievers embrace THE MESSAGE of Christ, is that they ARE NOT truly promoting the same message which the Messiah certainly did.

Many have taken the Bible as a book of LAWS (and become...well... "lawyers"). That will not work properly with HUMAN BEINGS; Jesus knew that, and addressed it with His very LIFE (that includes His WAY of life... which was primarily about LOVE where it concerned deaing with other human beings).
(Jesus celebrated Hannukah by the way.) Why is it that these tiny little minorities that are mentioned in the "all of them" don't just deal with it?
Why don't you (few) people out picking "cotton" in them yonder fields, just go on about your business?

Sometimes "minorities" (which are human, BTW), have valid grievances and issue which deserve to be heard and regarded. REAL LOVE addresses those grievances and does not force it's own way; it allows people to be who/what they are. There is no reason for any "Christian" to come out into the world, with the attitude that they should DOMINATE other people with THEIR WAY. People either accept Christ and become followers, or they DO NOT. I will agree that Christians are to wage WAR, but that is a SPIRITUAL WAR... the greatest weapon is unconditional LOVE.
The season IS Christmas. Why the need to horn in on the action?
People are not generally so STUPID or unaware, that they cannot intuitively recognize REAL LOVE. And who are these "Christians" who actually believe that they could actually further the God of the Bible's will, outside of adhering PRIMARILY to LOVE as a motive or METHOD? Who in the world, should be convinced of Jesus' love (John 3:16) by those who DO NOT make it THEIR WAY? Pesonally, I'm so sick of "Christianity" as a set of RULES, I could just throw up when I hear it presented that way. If it's not about LOVE or a relationship, then it's about worthlessness. The world sense that, and so many "Christians" miss the point of it.

Let's look at what LOVE is even according to the Bible, the problem kind of spells itself out.

-Mel-
Last edited by melikio on Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:09 pm, edited 5 times in total.
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

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LOVE (addendum to last post)

Post #19

Post by melikio »

I thought I would add this to the last post. I tend to think that CHRISTIANS run into massive problems, because they often forget the absolute importance of LOVE. What I'm about to share, emphasizes the differences between PLAYING GOD, and being capable of operating inside of God's will as it concerns OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. It's only my opinion (what I interpret), but that is based upon what I've been taught and live by.
1IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such [a]as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
What do some "Christians" sound like in this day and age?

2And if I have prophetic powers (/b/ the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have [sufficient] faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love (God's love in me) I am nothing (a useless nobody).
Why is this not readily evident to some believers?
3Even if I dole out all that I have [to the poor in providing] food, and if I surrender my body to be burned or [c] in order that I may glory, but have not love (God's love in me), I gain nothing.
What are some believers busy about accomplishing?
4Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.
Why are some believers so "in-your-face", IF they are of "God"?
5It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].
There is an infinite difference, between the will of ANY individual believer, and the providence or actual will of God Himself.
6It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.
How many people have suffered "injustice", maltreatment or dimished human rights in this world... simply because of some person claiming to be doing "God's will"?
7Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].
Like I've said to many people I know: This so-called "War on Chirstmas" is NOTHING... Christianity (the true essence of it) will survive period.
8Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy ([d]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].
Another difference between "religion" and taking on LOVE as a way of life; the deepest essence of who you might be/become in Christ.
9For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).
We don't know ALL of anyone or anything. We can be wrong and frequently are IGNORANT. People DO (often) suck; love them anyway.
10But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).
Since that is NO ONE we might know (except Jesus); why don't more "Christians" let God/Jesus work THROUGH them, instead of trying to bulldoze the hearts/minds of unbelievers into "conformity"?
11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.
A mature person tends to make valid and/or reasonable assessments about what they can/cannot do within their own power. They have a REAL view of their span of control.
12For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as [e]in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand [f]fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been [g]fully and clearly known and understood [[h]by God].
None of us are God; we don't know EVERYTHING and we aren't anywhere near PERFECT. If God can love the WORLD (as pitiful and sinful as it was/is), why shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't a TRUE follower of Jesus put THAT best foot (love) forward?
13And so faith, hope, love abide [faith--conviction and belief respecting man's relation to God and divine things; hope--joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation; love--true affection for God and man, growing out of God's love for and in us], these three; but the greatest of these is love.
From anti-God atheist and confused skeptic to on-fire conserative Christian... I've invited them all to TEST what this is saying (not forced them to adhere to it, because I "believe" in it). And not everyone will come to a perfectly-exact conclusion here (humans), but it will draw people to a better place with one another; better relationships period. And those I see opposing the essence of this, I realize are likely a part of mankind's overall problems.

-Mel-
Last edited by melikio on Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

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Re: The war on Christmas

Post #20

Post by ST88 »

Aximili23 wrote:Many of you have probably heard of the so-called "War on Christmas"
Personally, I think this was Republican plant story to try and distract the nation from our current administration's real problems. This is a silly, ridiculous non-issue like flag burning that people have very strong opinions about and which can be inflamed at various times in order to get minds on something other than real news. Republican divisiveness at its best. Karl Rove, I salute you! No, not like that... like this! :drunk:
Every concept that can ever be needed will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings forgotten. -- George Orwell, 1984

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