I've come for you

[coffeem8]

Hey y'all

Let's play a game.. you tell me why you don't believe in God, and I will attempt to change your mind!

If you already believe in God + Jesus, we can talk about that, too

Yay! It'll be fun, lol

[Zzyzx]

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So, that works both ways, and is an agreement that delusion is a very real possibility.

Agreed. Humans are quite capable of delusion, deception, errors, misunderstandings, etc – in ANY direction on any topic.

Here I am, taking your words seriously.. Should I take them with a grain of salt instead?

My policy is to take someone's word about things that make little or no difference – but to verify what is said about important matters. I'll take anyone's word for what they had for breakfast but not for tales about supernatural entities.

Ronald Reagan said it well with "Trust but verify." Those who unwisely accept what they are told are known as gullible.

And are you saying that what you have said is irrelevant, because it happened to you, therefore becoming ubelieveable?

In reasoned and honorable debate personal testimonials are not regarded as proof of anything other than that is what the person claims.

No, you're probably OK with trusting in what happened to you, because you were there, and you know that it happened.

People generally seem to trust what "happened to them" – whether they accurately understand what happened or not.

Well I was present when I got deliverance, and not delusional.

"Deliverance" may be very real (or seem that way) to you (generic term). However, when you attempt to tell or convince others it is nothing but hearsay (that heard from others) or testimonials. Thus, it is a personal matter.

What's more is this: what I'm saying is that JESUS STILL DOES MIRACLES TODAY..

That is what is known as a CLAIM. In debate if one's claims are challenged they are expected (and required by Forum Rules) to provide evidence to support the claim. The claim is hereby challenged.

People need the miracles, they need help.

SOME people "need the miracles" (or think they do). Others do not need miracles or supernatural help.

Admittedly some people here on this site seem to have the most wonderful life imaginable,

People in general live lives that they consider or describe as being anywhere from wonderful to terrible – reflecting their reaction to circumstances they encounter and decisions they make.

portrayed with a false, fellow human-loving disguise and protected by the most hateful attitudes I have ever had the pleasure of encountering.

Referring to the actions of others as being false and disguising hateful attitudes is hateful itself, isn't it? Does "log in one's own eye" apply?

Often people who are new to debate regard as "hateful" disagreement with their position or their religious beliefs. Many seem accustomed to "debating" with similar or overlapping religious beliefs – and become uncomfortable when encountering strong opposition arguments.

This site is owned and administered by a Christian / accomplished debater / very fair and even-handed man. The moderating team consists of eight people – equally balanced between Theist and Non-Theist. No theological position is given preference or favorable treatment – "the playing field is very level". Arguments and debaters stand or fall on their own merits.

If any post is actually hateful, report it with the exclamation point button upper right of each post. Admin and Moderators will consider the matter and take action if appropriate.

but what about the people who are in need? In church the prayers were like, "Oh Lord, heal such and such, if it be your will. "

Some people in need find "help" through church and prayers. They may recover from illness or injury or may not. Others seek medical attention without church and prayer.

Some people find psychological help and comfort in church and prayers, some find that with professional counseling, others depend on themselves and their own abilities.

Of course it's his will!! Have you ever thought about that?

I've hear that platitude for many decades and have asked for evidence that it is anything more than imagination or fantasy or wishful thinking. The response is "Take my word for it (or his or this book)."

That we were supposed to use the gift of healing on them instead of just saying those types of prayers.

Can the "gift of healing" be SHOWN to be anything more than a baseless claim or story? Anyone who can demonstrate that it works can collect a million dollars (which they can donate to their favorite charity if they choose).

There is a current thread discussing whether prayer can be shown to work (or be any more effective than a sugar pill). http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... e1b65f2985

So far, after 427 posts it doesn't seem as though any evidence has been presented to show that it does.

We were s'posed to obey the word, oc. That's where the breakdown occurred.

Believers are supposed to "obey the word" – but generally acknowledge that they don't do so consistently. "The word" is meaningless to Non-Believers (who seem to do just as well without that external support and structure).

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Danmark]

Hey.

Right up front, I warn, turn from your wicked ways- repent! Else hellfire be your eternal dwelling place. Believe in your heart on the son of God, on him that can save your soul, confess him with your mouth and you will be saved.

For the deeds done in darkness are not hidden from him that is hidden from you, and even the earth itself is weary of willing sin.

The sun, earth, and stars will themselves testify against those who continue in sin. Neglecting salvation.

(see, apocolypse of Paul)



-------


Idolatry, regional powers and principalities, sexual impurity- I've prayed against them, for you, since reading your message. Notice patterns in your area- revisit the notion of free will.

Spiritually, wickedness is being fueled by the allowances of that la-ti-da attitude. When it's done, it will destroy even those who were its vessels. Someone else will warn you soon, also.

Physically, somebody's making big $ from the economy where you are. All's not well, man.



I pray according to God's will. He will answer.

Hey Coffee, can we not leave 'scare tactics' to the terrorists? You would think an all wise and all loving god could do better than ISIS.

What you say and do above works on many children, this I know first hand, but you are talking to thinking adults here and will need to do better than to attempt to scare people into believing your claims.

We will know them by their fruit.
The fruit you display here is the same fruit displayed by terrorists.
If a god was helping you here, I would assume you would be doing better than these ISIS like attempts.

Be well.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 51 by Ancient of Years]

The theories you have built are very impressive.

Belief in God, and Jesus/Word of God is simple for me, because I have personally experienced deliverance by the name of Jesus. I get excited about the presence of the Holy Spirit- such cannot be measured with scientific instruments, it is manifested in the form of total peace.

Perhaps you are not aware that the parts of a persons brain that light up when discussing their favorite football team for example are the same parts of the brain that light up when discussing their favorite god.

That you get excited about your religion is expected. I'm sure you know some people that get really excited about their favorite sports team too. At least sports teams can be shown to be real though. As far as I'm concerned, your mind is just there doing what minds do. You for some reason are impressed by it though.

[coffeem8]

[Replying to coffeem8 in post #1]

Good morning my email said somebody wants to fuss with me about whether Jesus is real, so here I am!! Tag, you're it

[Clownboat]

[Replying to coffeem8 in post #1]

Good morning my email said somebody wants to fuss with me about whether Jesus is real, so here I am!! Tag, you're it

Most people agree with you. The stories about a Jesus most likely were written about a person or persons that actually existed.

That a person may have existed does not all of a sudden make virgin births, walking on water, sorcering up food, being a demigod and returning from the dead actualities obviously. If it did, we would have to believe Muhammed flew to heaven on a winged horse in order to be consistant.

So, was Jesus real? Likely, in some way, shape or form most would agree. Unfortunately, what we do have is from religious promotional material. Is religious promotional material to be believed?

[coffeem8]

Hi, to you and all who've replied that I've missed ever since 2014

My name is Lisa, and here is why I believe that Jesus is exactly who the Bible says he is, and that the problems in the world are a direct result of not believing in him and not abiding by the bible, as an actual TRUTH that should always be considered in any situation FIRST:

When I was too young to know how old I was, I once was outside alone, and scared, and feeling abandoned, cold, and crying for help. As I was weeping for help, with a feeling of not wanting to live (I now know what the feeling was, having grown and felt it sooo many times), I suddenly realized that there was warmth on my lead and shoulders.

I raised my head and there was light all around, and my eyes followed upwards to a gray sky all around with one extremely bright opening, the light piercing and falling on me exactly.

My crying became forgotten as the warmth went deeper, like literally through my body, mainly my chest.

I gazed at the bright opening--( PLEASE GET THIS... I, A YOUNG CHILD, WAS GAZING AT A LIGHT IN THE SKY WITHOUT SQUINTING...I REMEMBER-- ) until the clouds swiftly closed themselves.

I got up from there, not sad, not cold, and began to play in the yard... I spoke words that made me feel happy, that I later thought was Spanish, until I had my first Spanish class in school...

I have played just like that ever since. I have never felt alone, never been bored, and never been permanently impressed by the things and people of this world.

Not that they aren't impressive, I was just thinking of other things... matters of right and wrong.

..to be continued

[coffeem8]

2. My grandmother took me to church when I was a little older, maybe 3. There were a lot of toys, and when they asked me if I knew Jesus I said, "Yes. I want to play with that play stove." Lol

3. I went to church Baptist, for the following 15 years, and then again for 4-5, during which time was a Sunday school teacher and president of the ladies' auxilliary. This I say not in any way bragging or saying I was so holy or whatever... I relate that experience to make it evident to you that I was considered a teacher-and-president leveled person. Aged 25 or 26.

4. This might be like bragging, but oh well. I scored in the top 10th percentile of students in the US in some subjects on the SAT's in 1999. I'm saying that to express that I don't doubt me, i know why I believe anything, because that's who I am, and I know me, and I don't believe anything without a real good reason.

5. We found my son upstairs, at night, not breathing... dead.. I screamed to God, blew in his mouth, and he freaking came back alive, THANKYOU GOD...THANKYOU THANKYOU....

My husband had gotten up to use the bathroom and heard my younger son crying softly and calling Blake's name.

We don't know how long it had been. My young son was too young to describe anything except that the bed had been shaking.

The doctors found nothing wrong, no sign of him not breathing and no sign of damage.


5. When I pray he answers.

6. In 2013 I called a guy for prayer and he cast demons out of me in the name of Jesus. As soon as he said, "in the name of Jesus," I fell to my knees and something Shot 4-5 feet from my mouth.

I said, "What was that?"

I had been to church for all those years, and other churches, yet I had never even heard of evil spirits, demons. And there, for thirty minutes he prayed for me in that way, and afterward, I didn't feel like killing myself anymore! For the first time ever!

He explained that when we sin, we allow a corresponding evil spirit to enter our beings and stay there.

I spent the rest of these years studying to see if this was true, if Jesus is true, if other things are true, experimenting and meditating and proving to myself whether it was all true. I started studying the bi le in 2003, and then, I studied deliverance and evil spirits and psychology issues and news and politics and human behavior and news and celebrity news and conspiracy theory and mainstream news, and observing.

So yes, even though I can expect a superbly written refusal of everything I say, well, that's ok, because I KNOW.

And there is more; if you'd like to hear it just say so

[Tcg]

[Replying to coffeem8 in post #77]

It seems odd that the experience you had as a young child doesn't mention either the bible or Jesus and yet you present it as if it is evidence of what the bible states about Jesus. It reminds me a bit of Yusuf Islam's experience. When he was still known as Cat Stevens, during an incident swimming in the ocean he almost drowned, he cried out to God proclaiming he would serve God if God saved him. Just after that plea, a large wave came and carried him back to shore.

Guess what happened? Cat became a Muslim even though the event had nothing to do with Allah or the Qur'an. After the event he took to reading a present his brother gave him. It was of course a copy of the Qur'an.

It isn't uncommon for folks to connect unusual events to a God of some kind even though there is no connection in the event to a specific God or faith.


Tcg

[coffeem8]

I said this is why I believe. I <- Lisa believes

Ok, just clearing that up

As for the cat, i can't say whether that happened or not. But I can say what happened to me.

And yes it's odd, all of it... demons cast out.... pretty weird.

[Clownboat]

I said this is why I believe. I <- Lisa believes

Ok, just clearing that up

As for the cat, i can't say whether that happened or not. But I can say what happened to me.

And yes it's odd, all of it... demons cast out.... pretty weird.

Why should we not discount your story just like you did for Cat Stevens? Is yours to be believed and his rejected?
As has been pointed out, your story did not mention Jesus or the Bible, perhaps you and Cat Stevens both got intervention from Allah?