What is a "Christian Deist"?

atheist buddy · Post by **atheist buddy** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:14 am

There is a group on this forum called "Christian Deist".

What is that?

A deist is one who believes that a God played a part in the universe coming into being, but does not manifest itself in any way whatsoever, and no attribute of this deist God can be discerned in any way.

A Christian is one who believe that a God manifests itself, and that the way in which it manifests itself makes it different from other Gods which don't exist, such as Zeus and Odin.

Deism and Christianity seem fundamentally incompatible.

If you are a deist, you don't believe in any of the attributes of the Christian God that differentiate him from all other Gods.

If you believe that God has any attributes whatsoever and manifests himself in any way (which is a requirement of even the loosest of Christianity) then you're not a deist.

So, this is my question to all members of the forum group "Christian Deist". What gives? What are you, a deist or a Christian?

Overcomer · Post by **Overcomer** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:25 am

You're absolutely right, atheistbuddy. One can be a deist, believing in an impersonal God who doesn't get involved in his creation, or one can be a Christian theist, believing in a personal God who does get involved in the world. It defies the law of non-contradiction to claim to be both a deist and a Christian theist. A person would have to redefine both terms to make it fit himself and that's simply dishonest.

atheist buddy · Post by **atheist buddy** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:34 am

Overcomer wrote: You're absolutely right, atheistbuddy. One can be a deist, believing in an impersonal God who doesn't get involved in his creation, or one can be a Christian theist, believing in a personal God who does get involved in the world. It defies the law of non-contradiction to claim to be both a deist and a Christian theist. A person would have to redefine both terms to make it fit himself and that's simply dishonest.

Great, so to maintain consistency, can we decide whether the forum allows groups that defy the law of non-contradiction?

If not, let's erase "Christian Deist". Otherwise, I'd like to add "bachelor's wife".

Divine Insight · Post by **Divine Insight** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:35 am

I agree that "Christian Deism" is an oxymoron. It's an oxymoron to both Christianity and to Deism IMHO.

But clearly there are people who aren't bothered by oxymorons.

Christian Deism

I personally see this philosophy as nothing more than deists caving into the evangelical social pressures of Christianity. In this way they can claim to believe and accept "Christ" whilst basically rejecting the Christian demands that Jesus was God.

It's an oxymoron, IMHO, because once a person rejects the divinity of Jesus then he's no longer "The Christ". So to continue to call it "Christian" is absurd.

A moral man name Jesus would not be "The Christ".

So the very term "Christian Deism" where the idea is to reject the divinity of "The Christ", as the only begotten virgin-born son of the personified God Yahweh is an oxymoron.

How people can take these concepts and terms seriously is beyond me. But clearly they do take them seriously.

I think it's just a way to try to appease Christendom by proclaiming an "acceptance" of the moral teachings of Jesus whilst rejecting the dogma of Christianity.

But it clearly doesn't work anyway. The Christians don't buy into it, and neither does anyone else. The only people who buy into it are people who think they can appease Christendom by claiming to agree with the morality of Jesus whilst denying his divinity. But most Christians tend to believe that to deny the divinity of Jesus as the only begotten Son of the personified Yahweh is indeed "rejecting the Christ". Just because a person calls themselves a "Christian Deist" doesn't make them a Christian. On the contrary they are actually rejecting the divinity of "The Christ". Especially in terms of Jesus being the only begotten son of Yahweh as the Christian Gospels demand.

So "Christian Deism" is actually a rejection of Christianity. It's a rejection of the Christian Gospels for sure.

atheist buddy · Post by **atheist buddy** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:41 am

Divine Insight wrote: I agree that "Christian Deism" is an oxymoron. It's an oxymoron to both Christianity and to Deism IMHO.

But clearly there are people who aren't bothered by oxymorons.

Christian Deism

I personally see this philosophy as nothing more than deists caving into the evangelical social pressures of Christianity. In this way they can claim to believe and accept "Christ" whilst basically rejecting the Christian demands that Jesus was God.

It's an oxymoron, IMHO, because once a person rejects the divinity of Jesus then he's no longer "The Christ". So to continue to call it "Christian" is absurd.

A moral man name Jesus would not be "The Christ".

So the very term "Christian Deism" where the idea is to reject the divinity of "The Christ", as the only begotten virgin-born son of the personified God Yahweh is an oxymoron.

How people can take these concepts and terms seriously is beyond me. But clearly they do take them seriously.

I think it's just a way to try to appease Christendom by proclaiming an "acceptance" of the moral teachings of Jesus whilst rejecting the dogma of Christianity.

But it clearly doesn't work anyway. The Christians don't buy into it, and neither does anyone else. The only people who buy into it are people who think they can appease Christendom by claiming to agree with the morality of Jesus whilst denying his divinity. But most Christians tend to believe that to deny the divinity of Jesus as the only begotten Son of the personified Yahweh is indeed "rejecting the Christ". Just because a person calls themselves a "Christian Deist" doesn't make them a Christian. On the contrary they are actually rejecting the divinity of "The Christ". Especially in terms of Jesus being the only begotten son of Yahweh as the Christian Gospels demand.

So "Christian Deism" is actually a rejection of Christianity. It's a rejection of the Christian Gospels for sure.

Hey, I just had an idea. Let's start calling ourselves "Christian Atheists".

Divine Insight · Post by **Divine Insight** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:50 am

atheist buddy wrote: Hey, I just had an idea. Let's start calling ourselves "Christian Atheists".

You're too late. That club has already been invented.

Christian Atheist

This is equally absurd as a "Christian Deist". But there you have it. The club already exists.

atheist buddy · Post by **atheist buddy** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:57 am

Divine Insight wrote:
atheist buddy wrote: Hey, I just had an idea. Let's start calling ourselves "Christian Atheists".
You're too late. That club has already been invented.

Christian Atheist

This is equally absurd as a "Christian Deist". But there you have it. The club already exists.

wow. Does "Devout Christian anti-deist" exist?

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:21 pm

Despite the flippant tone of this thread from it's inception to much of it's execution, I will reply.

Though I doubt the sincerity of the inquiry in this case (I have answered and posted a topic myself on this issue, something along the lines of "can one be a Christian AND a Deist?, the answer it yes)

I believe the answer is in the description of the usergroup I posted too. A Christian Deist is one who believes in the TEACHINGS of Jesus, but not his divinity.

Most famous Christian Deist from history? Thomas Jefferson, who edited the NT and formed a book called "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" otherwise known as the Jefferson Bible.

Oh, and there are some here who DO define themselves as "Christian Atheists" though I am not sure there is a formal usergroup with that name.

Zzyzx · Post by **Zzyzx** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:47 pm

.

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atheist buddy · Post by **atheist buddy** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:21 pm

Elijah John wrote:A Christian Deist is one who believes in the TEACHINGS of Jesus, but not his divinity.

Pardon me, but I still don't understand.

A Christian is by definition somebody who believes Jesus is the Christ. Namely, that he is divine.

So what you're saying is that a Christian deist is somebody who believes Jesus is divine but isn't divine.

I truly don't get it. Which one is it?

Your definition of a Christian Deist is also highly confusing with respect to other groups.

For example, I do not believe in Jesus's divinity at all. I find that an offensive and absurd fairy tale that is holding humanity back from reaching its true intellectual and ethical potential.

But, I happen to agree with some of the teachings attributed to Jesus.

In other words, I, an atheist who truly despises religion, am a Christian Deist by your definition, becuase I reject Jesus's divinity but accept some of his teachings.

Millions of Buddhists, Jews, Hindus surely value the teachings of Jesus as well, while rejecting the notion of his divinity. So are these billions also Christian Deists?

Lasty, you know who else is a Christian Deist by your definition? Every Muslim in the world. That's right. Islam considers Jesus a prophet, and therefore believes that his teachings are inspired by Allah and therefore accept them, but they do not consider Jesus divine.

So, by your definition, most atheists, jews, hindus, buddhists and muslims are Christian Deists.

Why don't you go to Iraq and explain to a member of ISIS that he is a Christian Deist. You know your definition of a group is nonesense, if millions of members of that group will kill you if you tell them to their face that they belong to that group.

A bulldog isn't a type of cat, and a Muslim isn't a type of Christian.

If your definition of bulldog is so nonsensical that it also includes cats, then you're doing something wrong.

If your definition of Christian Deist is so nonsensical that it also includes Muslims, then you're doing something wrong.

I do not believe in Jesus's divinity but value some of his teachings. So, according to you, I'm a type of Christian - a Christian Deist.

I do not believe that Mohmanned is Allah's prophet, but value some of his teachings. So, according to you, I'm a type of Muslism - A Muslim Deist.

By the formula dictated by your definition + the necessity for consistency, if you value anything said by any religious figure, then you automatically become a member of that religion, but have to add the word "Deist" at the end.

In other words, I'm a Christian Deist, Muslim Deist, Hindu Deist, Buddhist Deist, Greek Mythology Deist, Scientology Deist, Mormon Deist.

Can you please put a little more thought into this and let me know what you come back with? Thanks.