should homosexuals be executed?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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DanieltheDragon
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should homosexuals be executed?

Post #1

Post by DanieltheDragon »

The bible clearly states that homosexual acts are punishable by death.

Lev 20:13

If a man lie swith another man the way he lies with a woman , both of them have committed a detestable act, they shall surely be put to death ;they have brought this on their own heads

It appears to me anything short of the death penalty is meaningless to God. Why won't the "straight agenda" recognize this?

Question for debate should there be a death penalty for LGBT individuals?

JLB32168

Post #111

Post by JLB32168 »

DanieltheDragon wrote:If they are logical inferences what is yours?
1) Other forms of marriage outside of the traditional form – traditional according to Western standards – aren’t mentioned in the NT. Only the traditional form of it is. While this is an argument from silence and one cannot build a positive assertion upon that absence, we can conclude that this likely suggests that non-traditional forms of marriage simply weren’t regarded as real marriage.
2) Christ’s failure to mention homosexual acts as sinful is perfectly explained by the fact that the culture of the time placed a scathing taboo upon such acts; therefore, there was little need to beat a dead horse.
3) The pagan Eastern Roman Empire, which was Hellenistic and not Roman, was perfectly cool with homosexual acts. As Christianity became prominent in the formerly pagan empire homosexual acts became more and more taboo until they were eventually criminalized.

For these reasons (and I could find many more) it is logical to conclude that all of the examples you provided (i.e. 1.) gays can't marry 2.)you can't particpate in gay weddings 3.) you can't preside over a gay marriage(as a magistrate of the court) 4.) you can't support gay marriage) are incompatible with Christian teaching.

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Post #112

Post by Clownboat »

JLB wrote:Yes, but I think you’re equivocating on the word “change.� You cited a verse about Christ (e.g. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever�) and attempt to effectively assert that the writer means to convey the idea that any and all types of change are prohibited when clearly the writer doesn’t mean it to be applied universally since Christ clearly was an adult and changed from an infant.
Please provide evidence for the claim in bold. I personally think there was most likely a Jesus person that stemmed these claims, but I'm not aware of any evidence, much less anything that would make it 'clear'.

As a Christian, I always took 'the same yesterday, today and forever' to be describing personality traits. Why do you take it to mean changing from a child to an adult? I would like to see if I can follow your train of thought.
Clownboat wrote:As far as not having needs, that is an odd claim since he is claimed to have created humans and seems to desire worship, and is claimed to love us and want to spend eternity with us.
#1 – How does creating evince a need?
Please provide a reason to create humans that does not have a need/desire behind it. I suppose you could say humans were created by a god on accident, but I don't believe that you believe this.
#2 – Where does God claim that he needs worship, that is, validation by anyone?
Ephesians 1:11-12
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
The reason we exist is "for the praise of his glory". All praise be to the Glory of Christ!
Clownboat wrote:I see humans being involved, not some magical 'it is finished' words.
And that’s fine and good but the fact remains that “It is finished� allows for the interpretation that the Law was accomplished in Christ and that we are no longer bound by the minutia of the OT, which is the question before us.
Really? What about the 10 commandments?
Perhaps you are a false teacher that Jesus warned us about?
In Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared, "Think NOT that I am come to destroy the Law . . ." So WHY is it that this is what people think? Jesus clearly said DO NOT EVEN THINK THIS, yet ministers and Bible "scholars" alike go ahead and GO AGAINST Jesus' clear teaching by saying that we do not have to keep God's Law. We are warned of these FALSE teachers by the apostle Paul in 2Cor 11:13-15, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness: whose end shall be according to their works." Satan's ministers pawn themselves off as Jesus' ministers and Satan makes himself out to be Christ!!!

The apostle John taught throughout his writings that the law is still to be observed by God's people. You could read in John 5:14 & 8:11 where Jesus told people to "sin no more". WHAT IS SIN? I Jn 3:4 states, " . . . sin is the transgression of the law". SIN IS THE BREAKING OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS! Jesus said not to break them anymore!! John said that we don't even know Jesus IF WE DON"T keep the commandments (I Jn 2:3-6). He continued to show that we are to keep the commandments in the book of Revelation. Rev 12:17 says, "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Now read Rev 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 22:14 states: "Blessed are they that do His commandments . . . "

What about the apostle Paul? False teachers take Paul's writings out of context to say the Law is done away with. The apostle Peter gave warning of this in 2Pet 3:15,16. Paul himself kept the law and declared, "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good". He wrote to the Romans that ". . . the doers of the law shall be justified" (Rom 2:13). Concerning the GRACE of God that we are under, he asked, " . . . Shall we continue in sin (lawbreaking), that grace may abound? God forbid! (the Greek words here mean, "May it never be conceived of" - DON'T EVEN THINK IT!) How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom 6:1,2). And concerning Law and Faith he asks, "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid (Again - MAY IT NEVER BE CONCEIVED): Yea, we establish the law". (Rom 3:31)

These are just a few of the many Scriptures which show the Truth of Lawkeeping for Christians.
http://www.truthontheweb.org/nt10com.htm
Clownboat wrote:This Us vs Them attitude is just cult behavior.
You asked about the mixing of different types of threads for weaving cloth and why God would direct people to refrain from such mixing. I gave you the answer. That you think it’s cult behavior isn’t question before us.
I never said it was the question. I was just pointing out the behavior. It existed in the OT and it existed at my church. You can take notice or not as I trust the readers will do.
Clownboat wrote:I find this defense so lame. Forget about all the other slavery that was going on, look how fair they were about owning other Hebrew people.
Not that it’s relevant to the question but you’ve presupposed that slavery is objectively wrong. Can you substantiate that claim? For most of man’s history, slavery has not been objectively wrong.
I find slavery, genocide and discrimination to be wrong.
If it were not for your religious beliefs, you would probably be just as moral as I am I would guess.
If you were not a Christian, would you still want to treat certain groups of people unfairly? Would you still defend the annihilation of certain specific groups of humans? Would you really find owning other humans as property to be just fine and dandy?
Perhaps you would, but consider that perhaps it is your religious beliefs that cause what is probably otherwise a good person to support terrible and immoral concepts.
Yay religion. Yay slavery, Yay descrimination. Yay genocide.
Seriously, to ask someone to demonstrate that such things are wrong seems asinine.
Do you not know the golden rule? Would you want to be someones property or sex slave? Would you find it fair if genocide was done to all Christians? Do you really struggle with the morality or lack there of on these issues?
Clownboat wrote:You mean Moses, we get sex slaves if we go to war!?! Mmm, Mmm. I want me some virgins.
In a barbaric and strongly patriarchal society, this ensured that women wouldn’t be left destitute to starve to death. It’s reprehensible thinking today, but it served a purpose at the time.
So they should have been killed off with all the men and donkeys if you are sticking to your support of genocide. Not taken in to slavery to be sex slaves.
Clownboat wrote:OK, it is a fact that a circle is a 2 dimensional object. The earth is a sphere not a circle and it is a fact that a circle is not a sphere.
Do you have any objective evidence that says that the people thought that the earth was flat? Are you also saying that describing the earth as a circle absolutely excludes the interpretation of being spherical? How is that question relevant to Christianity and how the idea of a flat earth was certainly not normative belief w/in the Roman Empire long before Christianity arrived on the scene? Why would the Bible a spherical earth if there wasn’t any question of it being spherical in Christ’s time?
How is it relevant to the question of why Christians no follow the teaching of the need for capital punishment for engaging in homosexual acts?
You have gone way of the path here JLB.
My point was to show a difference. You seem impressed with the stories in this book and think that it is inspired by a god. The genocide, sexual slavery and such do not impress me. Ending with, "by the way, the earth is round" would be something I would have found impressive, whether or not you think they thought the earth was flat or not.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Post #113

Post by Clownboat »

JLB32168 wrote:
DanieltheDragon wrote:If they are logical inferences what is yours?
1) Other forms of marriage outside of the traditional form – traditional according to Western standards – aren’t mentioned in the NT. Only the traditional form of it is. While this is an argument from silence and one cannot build a positive assertion upon that absence, we can conclude that this likely suggests that non-traditional forms of marriage simply weren’t regarded as real marriage.
2) Christ’s failure to mention homosexual acts as sinful is perfectly explained by the fact that the culture of the time placed a scathing taboo upon such acts; therefore, there was little need to beat a dead horse.
3) The pagan Eastern Roman Empire, which was Hellenistic and not Roman, was perfectly cool with homosexual acts. As Christianity became prominent in the formerly pagan empire homosexual acts became more and more taboo until they were eventually criminalized.

For these reasons (and I could find many more) it is logical to conclude that all of the examples you provided (i.e. 1.) gays can't marry 2.)you can't particpate in gay weddings 3.) you can't preside over a gay marriage(as a magistrate of the court) 4.) you can't support gay marriage) are incompatible with Christian teaching.
Let's look at a real life scenario and I would like to know what you think this person should do:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do ... 497556.htm
She looks like a woman, acts like a woman and got married as a wife. But she couldn't bear children because she is actually a man.

A Jiangsu native who always thought she was a woman - and so did everybody else - actually had two hidden testicles, no ovaries and no uterus, devastating her life.

Her congenital anomaly was surgically removed, but she cannot bear children and a chromosome examination confirmed that "she" is actually a "he."

The case is one in 10,000.

The patient underwent successful surgery at the Shanghai Consonancy Hospital this month.

The 27-year-old woman, identified only as Zhang, was married three years ago to her colleague in a middle school. Since she was unable to become pregnant, she visited Shanghai Consonancy after consulting the Internet.

An ultrasound check found she had no ovaries and no uterus but two small testicles hidden in the abdominal cavity. A chromosome examination, however, confirmed Zhang is actually a male.

Since Zhang has a vagina, it was not until the ultrasound exam that the couple learned "she" was a "he."

Zhang only has testicles but no other male organs, such as a penis, and other male characteristics.

She has female external genitalia and was reared as a girl.


Should Zhang divorce his husband now that he knows he is in a SSM?
But divorce is wrong... So should he stay in his SSM to avoid the divorce?

SSM, like it or not is just not as cut and dry as you would like. Sometimes people get involved in same sex marriages without knowing it.
Obviously, you wouldn't argue for her execution from the sounds of it, so I ask if he should stay married or get divorced?

Thanks for your thoughts.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

JLB32168

Post #114

Post by JLB32168 »

[Replying to post 111 by Clownboat]There is a thread already devoted to SSM. I have addressed your question there.

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