Trickle-Down Morality

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

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Purple Knight
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Trickle-Down Morality

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

People generally assume equality when it comes to moral questions: They assume that all [sentient]* entities are equal and that if one murders and it is wrong, then another one that murders is also wrong.

*probably add this, not entirely sure
TheGreatDebate wrote:I am just very curious as to why all the charges of “murderer,� “disgusting,� etc… are flying around. I assume you all are atheists? From what moral authority do you assign these terms from?
But this gem of a quote (referencing people calling the God of the Bible evil) I believe exposes the fact that underneath the surface, this is not the case.

If a government kills, for its own purposes, or to defend its ideology, it's war, not murder. If an individual person kills for these same reasons, it is.

I ask the question: Do you believe morality trickles down, or up, or in any other direction?

Or do you believe that higher moral authority equals more morally permissible actions?

Bonus question: If you're religious, and your answer was no, morality does not trickle down, how does this sit with the idea that one should imitate Jesus or some other figure? Wouldn't that mean that you definitely shouldn't try to do this, since [insert religious figure] had moral authority, and you don't, making the act you imitate potentially an evil one when you do it?

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Re: Trickle-Down Morality

Post #2

Post by Adstar »

Purple Knight wrote: People generally assume equality when it comes to moral questions: They assume that all [sentient]* entities are equal and that if one murders and it is wrong, then another one that murders is also wrong.

*probably add this, not entirely sure
TheGreatDebate wrote:I am just very curious as to why all the charges of “murderer,� “disgusting,� etc… are flying around. I assume you all are atheists? From what moral authority do you assign these terms from?
But this gem of a quote (referencing people calling the God of the Bible evil) I believe exposes the fact that underneath the surface, this is not the case.

If a government kills, for its own purposes, or to defend its ideology, it's war, not murder. If an individual person kills for these same reasons, it is.

I ask the question: Do you believe morality trickles down, or up, or in any other direction?

Or do you believe that higher moral authority equals more morally permissible actions?

Bonus question: If you're religious, and your answer was no, morality does not trickle down, how does this sit with the idea that one should imitate Jesus or some other figure? Wouldn't that mean that you definitely shouldn't try to do this, since [insert religious figure] had moral authority, and you don't, making the act you imitate potentially an evil one when you do it?

You haven't explained what ""moral trickling down"" or ""morals trickling up"" Means?

What is moral trickling ?

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Purple Knight
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Re: Trickle-Down Morality

Post #3

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Adstar wrote:You haven't explained what ""moral trickling down"" or ""morals trickling up"" Means?

What is moral trickling ?
That sentient entities are equal in terms of morality.

If an act is wrong when one entity does it, so too would it be when done by another entity. The morality trickles freely from one to another.

It was a bit of a silly title, but I'm drawing a parallel between trickle-down economics; the idea that when the rich are better off, so too are everyone else.

Thus morality trickles down from one entity (such as God) to others. This is how we get morality to begin with according to the religious: God made it.

But is he then bound by it?

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Post #4

Post by The Tanager »

Purple Knight wrote:Do you believe morality trickles down, or up, or in any other direction?
Adstar wrote:What is moral trickling ?
Purple Knight wrote:If an act is wrong when one entity does it, so too would it be when done by another entity. The morality trickles freely from one to another.

...

Thus morality trickles down from one entity (such as God) to others. This is how we get morality to begin with according to the religious: God made it.
Morality does not 'trickle down' in this way according to the religious people I know. God's role as creator changes things. God making humans mortal is not evil, while me killing another human may very well be an instance of evil.
Purple Knight wrote:Or do you believe that higher moral authority equals more morally permissible actions?

Bonus question: If you're religious, and your answer was no, morality does not trickle down, how does this sit with the idea that one should imitate Jesus or some other figure? Wouldn't that mean that you definitely shouldn't try to do this, since [insert religious figure] had moral authority, and you don't, making the act you imitate potentially an evil one when you do it?
Jesus, in His humanity, has moral obligations to fulfill, such as not murdering someone in innocent blood. The same moral obligations God desires us to follow.

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Re: Trickle-Down Morality

Post #5

Post by Adstar »

Purple Knight wrote:
Adstar wrote:You haven't explained what ""moral trickling down"" or ""morals trickling up"" Means?

What is moral trickling ?
That sentient entities are equal in terms of morality.

If an act is wrong when one entity does it, so too would it be when done by another entity. The morality trickles freely from one to another.

It was a bit of a silly title, but I'm drawing a parallel between trickle-down economics; the idea that when the rich are better off, so too are everyone else.

Thus morality trickles down from one entity (such as God) to others. This is how we get morality to begin with according to the religious: God made it.

But is he then bound by it?
I was never one who believed in trikle-down economics.. I understand that the vast majority of rich people are rich because they are very good at preventing their wealth trickling away from them in any direction..

Anyway your use of this concept in relation to God has total bamboozled me.. Sorry i cannot understand your question so i cannot answer it..

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Post #6

Post by Purple Knight »

The Tanager wrote:Morality does not 'trickle down' in this way according to the religious people I know. God's role as creator changes things. God making humans mortal is not evil, while me killing another human may very well be an instance of evil.
Right, so follow me here.

We have established that moral equality is not a valid principle.

The same thing can be right for one, and wrong for another.

So wouldn't all humans being morally equal be a massive assumption?

To me, there's no reason to believe that the same action cannot be right for one human, and wrong for another.

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Post #7

Post by The Tanager »

Purple Knight wrote:Right, so follow me here.

We have established that moral equality is not a valid principle.

The same thing can be right for one, and wrong for another.

So wouldn't all humans being morally equal be a massive assumption?

To me, there's no reason to believe that the same action cannot be right for one human, and wrong for another.
We would be in agreement that universal moral equality of all beings is not a valid principle. From this alone, believing that all humans are morally equal is an assumption and so is believing that all humans are not morally equal. Either way you want to go from there, you will need further reasons to support your view.

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Post #8

Post by Purple Knight »

The Tanager wrote:We would be in agreement that universal moral equality of all beings is not a valid principle. From this alone, believing that all humans are morally equal is an assumption and so is believing that all humans are not morally equal. Either way you want to go from there, you will need further reasons to support your view.
Well, the far lesser assumption is that some particular thing is not the case.

If I say I have two numbers, it is the greater assumption to claim that they are equal than that they are not equal.

But I would still offer up all of politics as evidence that humans are not morally equal. Some people are deplorables for voting to keep their jobs at the cost of starving potential immigrants, but in some other countries, it is assumed that a country will put its own interests ahead of the interests of others, and no one really bothers them for it. Japan and China don't catch flak for stricter immigration policies, but advocate that in the United States and you're evil.

I'm not saying that deplorables aren't deplorables; I'm admitting they are. But there is a double standard. There is always a double standard, and with it, people crying about how unfair it is, but everyone knows it is right, even if it isn't fair. That's the whole reason they object.

If it doesn't seem this way to you, please say so. Perhaps I'm seeing double standards where there aren't any and drawing terrible conclusions. Just understand that I'm trying to champion those double standards, not complain about them.

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Re: Trickle-Down Morality

Post #9

Post by Bust Nak »

Purple Knight wrote: Do you believe morality trickles down, or up, or in any other direction?
Up, a society's law is a reflection of how the population feel about moral issues.
Or do you believe that higher moral authority equals more morally permissible actions?
What higher moral authority? The government is not a higher moral authority.

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Post #10

Post by The Tanager »

Purple Knight wrote:Well, the far lesser assumption is that some particular thing is not the case.
I don't see why. Regardless, I don't think one should assume either way.
Purple Knight wrote:If I say I have two numbers, it is the greater assumption to claim that they are equal than that they are not equal.
Why? Because of the vast number of numbers out there? There is the option of it being a 1 or a 2 or a 3, etc.? Or something else?
Purple Knight wrote:But I would still offer up all of politics as evidence that humans are not morally equal. Some people are deplorables for voting to keep their jobs at the cost of starving potential immigrants, but in some other countries, it is assumed that a country will put its own interests ahead of the interests of others, and no one really bothers them for it. Japan and China don't catch flak for stricter immigration policies, but advocate that in the United States and you're evil.
That people disagree morally is not the same thing as whether people should be held to the same standard or not.
Purple Knight wrote:I'm not saying that deplorables aren't deplorables; I'm admitting they are. But there is a double standard. There is always a double standard, and with it, people crying about how unfair it is, but everyone knows it is right, even if it isn't fair. That's the whole reason they object.
How unfair what is?

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