To Spank or Not to Spank?

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

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Whip your kids

Talk to them
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Different approach
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Nickman
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To Spank or Not to Spank?

Post #1

Post by Nickman »

Many religious families spank their children, at least when I was growing up. My father whipped me with a belt until I was a teenager. This made me not want to go to him when I knew I had messed up, because I was afraid that I would receive that leather strap across my butt. I am a firm believer in talking to your kids and using the belt only in last case scenarios.

Is whipping your kids beneficial?

Is talking to them better than whipping?

When is the right time to whip them or to talk to them?

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Re: To Spank or Not to Spank?

Post #2

Post by Divine Insight »

Nickman wrote: Is whipping your kids beneficial?
I would say that overall it causes far more harm than good. As you pointed out in your own experience, and "benefits" whipping might have had were horribly offset by causing you do be unable to trust your father to respond compassionately to open and honest communication.

I also firmly believe that spanking an innately bad child isn't going to magically transform them into a good person. On the contrary it will probably only cause them to become more bitter.

An innately good child who is spanked may remain innately good in spite of the spankings, however it is possible for the spanking to cause resentment and spoil what would have otherwise been a naturally good child. I think that depend on how often they are spanked and for what reasons.

Spanking an innately good child excessively for petty things can easily cause a good child to become an embittered child. So spanking can potentially be very dangerous.

Finally I feel that spanking is actually poor parenting skills.
Is talking to them better than whipping?


Without a doubt. When communication is open its far easier to discover underlying problems that may have caused the "bad behavior" in the first place. Also simply "scolding" them is not "talking to them".

It's really important to establish a conversation that addresses the motivation for the behavior. And a really smart parent can actually work that out without being overly aggressive about it. In fact, being overly aggressive, or judgmental, can actually hinder open communication.

Finally, it doesn't need to end with just talk. There can be consequences that need to be paid as well. The kid doesn't need to be "let off" just by having been talked to. ;)

However, even those consequences should be positive and constructive. Sending the kid to their room with no dinner or whatever as a form of "punishment" is just as useless as spanking. Instead, the child should be required to make restitution for their wrong doing via some form of positive and constructive chore. If the chore can be related to the offense that would be even better. For example, suppose the offense was that the kid stole something. Then part of the restitution chore should be that they are required to make things and give them away to other people. Just the opposite of what they had done wrong.

When is the right time to whip them or to talk to them?
I would never condone or advocating whipping them for any reason. In fact, it's my position that if a child is so unruly that whipping seems to be the only viable solution, then instead of whipping them they should be taken to see professional mental health experts. ;)

If a child needs to be whipped to get through to them there's some major problem going on and whipping them most likely isn't going to solve that underlying problem anyway. Better to take them in for professional help in that case.
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Re: To Spank or Not to Spank?

Post #3

Post by OnceConvinced »

This is an issue I still struggle with.

As a Christian, I took seriously the bible when it said "spare the rod, spoil the child". The bible definitely encourages child abuse.

I never used a rod on my kids, but I did spank and occasionally used a wooden spoon. I still think that some times it was appropriate. Once my children reached about 11 or 12 I never had to use those methods again. I had been consistent and set boundaries and they knew those boundaries and knew not to cross them. They were also old enough to be reasoned with and to understand the ramifications of their actions.

Really young kids cannot be reasoned with no matter how much you talk to them and try to explain things. They often just don't get it. You could put them in the naughty corner or employ a lot of time wasting methods like Super Nanny, but that causes everyone a lot of stress. Why not a quicker method like spanking especially if other methods are not practical at the time?

Was I justified in using the methods I used? I really am not sure and now knowing how flawed the bible is, I now have my doubts about it all. It's very hard to know whether I employed the right methods or not. What I do know is that my kids are good law abiding young adults now who are respectful to others and care about others. I also have a good relationship with them.

I was also smacked as a child. My mother in particular was one who believed in smacking. I was even whipped with a belt on the odd occasion (only rarely, for bigger infractions). I later learnt from my Dad that he wasn't very keen on smacking and using the belt, because his father was an abusive scum bag and he didn't want to use methods like his father used. My Dad said that it was Mum that demanded that kind of punishment for us.

Do I hold grudges against my parents? Certainly not, because I know that when they punished me like that they did it because they loved me.

Did it make me afraid to tell them things?

Yes. I think it did and what Nickman said really kind of got me thinking when I read it:
This made me not want to go to him when I knew I had messed up, because I was afraid that I would receive that leather strap across my butt.
I think this really is a huge issue. I was not able to talk about personal things with my parents. Part of that may also be because my parents just never talked about stuff like that anyway. Some of it may have been pride and not wanting my parents to think badly of me, but then some of it would have been fear of punishment.

I think about my own kids. I always wanted to be the kind of dad my kids could come to, to talk about anything. Am I that kind of dad? I'm not sure. Sometimes they do seem to talk about things I would never talk about with my parents, but then I wonder about all the stuff they haven't said and wonder if I screwed up with discipline or whether I was just no good at talking about stuff like that because I never learnt it from my parents.
Is whipping your kids beneficial?
Maybe in some circumstances? I am certainly not as certain as I was about this when I was a Christian with biblical commands not to spare the rod.
Is talking to them better than whipping?


If they can be reasoned with and if talking actually works. I see people who continually use the talking approach and the kid keeps offending in the same manner because they know they won't get into trouble.

My girlfriend uses the talking approach and it hasn't worked for her two oldest. I even heard one say once "All she'll do is growl me". That's the attitude of a lot of kids today. Sometimes you have to do more than just talk to get respect. Sure that doesn't mean you have to smack them, but still....
When is the right time to whip them or to talk to them?
That's the tricky question. I think it's about timing. Sometimes putting them in the naughty corner or removing privileges is not gonna work at that moment. And what if they just keep on offending?

I think it depends on the kids too.

I've done a lot of waffling here and let's just say I may have been wrong in the processes I used. But I know I was consistent and my kids have turned out ok. I'm just glad my kids are grown up now and I don't have to worry about punishing them anymore. I would hate to have to parent small children now, especially with the doubts I have about physical punishment now.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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Re: To Spank or Not to Spank?

Post #4

Post by bluethread »

OnceConvinced wrote: This is an issue I still struggle with.

As a Christian, I took seriously the bible when it said "spare the rod, spoil the child". The bible definitely encourages child abuse.
Where, as a Christian, did you find that quote in the bible?

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Re: To Spank or Not to Spank?

Post #5

Post by Divine Insight »

bluethread wrote:
OnceConvinced wrote: This is an issue I still struggle with.

As a Christian, I took seriously the bible when it said "spare the rod, spoil the child". The bible definitely encourages child abuse.
Where, as a Christian, did you find that quote in the bible?
That precise quote does not come from the Bible, but the mentality does come from the Bible.

Here are at least three verse that mean the same thing:

Prov.22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Prov.23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Prov.29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.


So evidently this is the mentality of our divine Creator God. Beat children with a rod, that'll teach em!

Proverbs 23:13 makes it pretty clear that we are talking about beating the child with the rod here.

I would personally expect a book inspired by an all-wise divine God to have better instructions on how to mentor children than this. And this is indeed one of the many thousands of reasons why I reject the bible as not being from any supremely intelligent God.
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Re: To Spank or Not to Spank?

Post #6

Post by OnceConvinced »

[Replying to post 5 by Divine Insight]

Actually now that I look there is no "Spare the Rod spoil the child" in those exact words, but yes there are the verses DI has quoted. There is also this one:

Prov 13:24: He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World

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Re: To Spank or Not to Spank?

Post #7

Post by Jashwell »

[Replying to post 1 by Nickman]

For reference, in the UK, using anything aside from an empty hand is illegal (and public opinion has swayed a lot on whether or not doing it at all should be legal).

Lasting marks (beyond just the skin reddening) are generally considered to be the start of assault and battery, if not actual bodily harm, and at that point it's generally prosecutable.

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Post #8

Post by McCulloch »

Rephrasing the question: is violent assault a valid and effective pedagogical technique?
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Re: To Spank or Not to Spank?

Post #9

Post by Genevieve »

Nickman wrote: Many religious families spank their children, at least when I was growing up. My father whipped me with a belt until I was a teenager. This made me not want to go to him when I knew I had messed up, because I was afraid that I would receive that leather strap across my butt. I am a firm believer in talking to your kids and using the belt only in last case scenarios.

Is whipping your kids beneficial?
Discipline is an extremely difficult part of parenting. All kids are different and will respond differently to any kind of discipline. No one gets it right all of the time, the best you can aim for is to clearly lay out expectations (reasonable expectations, and appropriate to the age level, of course) and be consistent with enforcing the rules. But first there has to be a lot of discussion between the parents of what they are ultimately trying to accomplish by setting the rules - that is a whole 'nother discussion, i.e., what is a really important lesson or character issue that needs discipline versus what is just inconvenient or perhaps even laziness on the part of the parents.

"Whipping," "smacking" and "beating" are not the same as spanking. If you are going to employ spanking it must be done correctly, with restraint and patience, not out of anger or frustration, and not even as a last case scenario. A simple swat on the butt, with an open hand or possibly a flat paddle, is all that is needed. NEVER anything that would leave a mark. Completely useless to use spanking on a teenager, in my opinion. Can you imaging if your dad had swatted you on the butt instead of whipping with the belt when you were older? That would be humiliating and terribly ineffective, just as whipping made you fearful and resentful.
Not everything should be a spanking infraction. Most of the time when young children act up it is because they are tired, or hungry, or overly stimulated. Those are not life lessons or character issues that need discipline, they just need parents who can recognize that they are expecting too much from their children in the situation and can act accordingly. It is not always convenient to do so, but much of parenting is inconvenient and difficult.
Nickman wrote: Is talking to them better than whipping?

When is the right time to whip them or to talk to them?
It is impossible to reason with a 2-year-old, even more so with a 2-year-old in the midst of a crying fit of selfishness. Even so, you should always talk to them with respect, in addition to whatever other form of discipline you use. It may not have any real affect on a 2-year-old, but it lays the groundwork for how you relate to them as they get older and as they can understand better the consequences of their actions.
We did spank our son up until he was about 7 or 8, but not in every situation. Most things were better handled in other ways. Some kids respond well to time outs, but, what if you put the child in time out and they refuse to stay? In our family outright defiance of the rules was a spanking infraction, but every parent has to figure out for themselves what works with their kids and what they are capable of using appropriately and consistently.

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Post #10

Post by Peds nurse »

There are many non religious families who spank their children.....

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