What did philosophy really do to Christianity?

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mickiel
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What did philosophy really do to Christianity?

Post #1

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"One of the most influential professors in the shaping of contemporary theology was Peter Abelard, (1079-1142). He is partly responsible for giving us modern theology. His teachings set the table and prepared the menu for scholastic philosophers like Thomas Aquinas, ( 1225-1274). Even before this Christianity became steeped in the thoughts of Plato and Aristotle.

The shocking historical fact is that many of the Christian church fathers were pagan philosophers and orators prior to their conversions, and the Christian faith soon began to take on a philosophical bent." ( Frank Viola pg.202).

( Much of this thread will draw from Frank Violas " Pagan Christianity", Eusebius" The history of the church", Boggs " The Christian Saga" and Rowdon " Theological education in historical perspective.") And from my own views of course. And I will draw on a few websites and articles, which I will always list the references.

Viola states, on Pg.203, " Within a century and a half after Christianity and Philosophy first came into contact, the ideas and methods of Philosophy had flowed in such mass into Christianity, and filled so large a place in it, as to have made it no less a Philosophy than a religion." Which when I read, was absolutely stunning!

When Philosophy got into the Christian bloodstream, especially Pagan philosophy, the Christian Theological Education system has never recovered from it. The fusion of Pagan and Christian elements, became a " Theology unto itself"; ( The term " Theology" used to describe Pagan beliefs).

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Post #101

Post by rbarton »

[Replying to post 100 by mickiel]

Respectfully, I think it is the other way around. The Biblical truth of the 'Resurrection' is overwhelming and stunning to the human rationale. There is an account of some 5000 eye witnesses to the risen Christ. With the way Jesus taught, through allegory and parable, Christianity seems to have to have a philosophical bend. Remember though, if Jesus is only a prophet, or a great philosopher, then he is also a liar. Realize, also that what you are proposing doesn't make Christianity false.

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mickiel
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Post #102

Post by mickiel »

[Replying to post 101 by rbarton]



Christianity is false in my view. From where I sit its a pagan inspired replica of the first church at Antioch ;gone bad soon after Christ left , distorted over time and morphed into a church so fooled, they don't even know it.

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Post #103

Post by Monta »

[Replying to Blastcat]


Monta wrote:

Without Judaism some other tribe or another man somewhere would have had enlightenment and perceive that there is One God;

Blastcard:
When people talk in hypotheticals like that.. I have to wonder how they can prove them. How do you know that without Judaism some other tribe or another WOULD HAVE ... perceive this or that?//

God created man and Jews are just another tribe that branched out. That makes us all human? Jewish story is like another human story, ups and downs and the rest.

Egyptian Pharaoh Arkhenaten, from what is known, first perceived that God is One.
Was it before Abraham came on stage to whom it was revealed that God is One. Why should we assume that there weren't other tribes around the world who would have already known that?

It's not hypothetical, it is human reason.

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Post #104

Post by Talishi »

rbarton wrote:The Biblical truth of the 'Resurrection' is overwhelming and stunning to the human rationale. There is an account of some 5000 eye witnesses to the risen Christ.
You are off by one order of magnitude on that account, which was made by someone who was not one of the 500 who saw Jesus in the flesh. He saw the ghost of Jesus a few years later.
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Post #105

Post by rbarton »

[Replying to post 102 by mickiel]

We may just have to agree to disagree. Have you read the early fathers of the church. We've morphed very little it seems over 2000 years. Obviously many believed. Proof being, many died for their faith in the first century, and are still being persecuted and killed. The apostles didn't go peacefully into the night either, did they? So, your 2016 perspective seems a bit out of sorts.

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Post #106

Post by mickiel »

rbarton wrote: [Replying to post 102 by mickiel]

We may just have to agree to disagree. Have you read the early fathers of the church. We've morphed very little it seems over 2000 years. Obviously many believed. Proof being, many died for their faith in the first century, and are still being persecuted and killed. The apostles didn't go peacefully into the night either, did they? So, your 2016 perspective seems a bit out of sorts.

I understand ,peace on your journey.

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Post #107

Post by rbarton »

[Replying to post 106 by mickiel]

Thank You. Peace, to you as well!

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Post #108

Post by mickiel »

I continue to maintain that when philosophy got introduced into Christianity , it took a serious turn in its education ; in fact now all Christian education includes philosophy in some form.

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Post #109

Post by Talishi »

mickiel wrote: I continue to maintain that when philosophy got introduced into Christianity , it took a serious turn in its education ; in fact now all Christian education includes philosophy in some form.
It was when the philosophy of Plato was introduced into Judaism (post-Alexander II) that we got ideas of hell (Tartarus) and an immaterial soul (psyche). God morphed from a tribal warrior king to an old bearded fellow in the sky hurling lightning bolts (Zeus), minus the pederasty.
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Post #110

Post by mickiel »

Talishi wrote:
mickiel wrote: I continue to maintain that when philosophy got introduced into Christianity , it took a serious turn in its education ; in fact now all Christian education includes philosophy in some form.
It was when the philosophy of Plato was introduced into Judaism (post-Alexander II) that we got ideas of hell (Tartarus) and an immaterial soul (psyche). God morphed from a tribal warrior king to an old bearded fellow in the sky hurling lightning bolts (Zeus), minus the pederasty.

Close enough to being true. That is in the right direction of what happened. It was during the Monastic age that Eastern church fathers became steeped in Platonic thought. Just kind of mixing it with their own thoughts. They foolishly believed that the techniques of Plato and Aristotle could be used to bring men to Christ. Their heavy reliance on these pagan philosophers severely diluted the Christian faith. Justin Martyr starting uplifting these philosophers , like Socrates, then Greek intellectualism started flooding the churches; even Origen was affected by it.

This stuff flowed into the Christian bloodstream to stay in there for all of this life. And will not be removed in this life. Only in the life to come.

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