Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

Moderator: Moderators

DanieltheDragon
Savant
Posts: 6224
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:37 pm
Location: Charlotte
Been thanked: 1 time

Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #1

Post by DanieltheDragon »

I think this is all smoke screen. Forget religion Z, I do a lot more than you think. Disagreeing with homosexual marriage is not about religion but reality.

Homosexuality is a non religious issue. Nobody has any benefit in a great range of activities from homosexuality to head butting a brick wall. No one wants to be a homosexual, just like no one wants to be blind. So why enshrine homosexuality?

Since that is true then really what is the motive behind gay marriage?

Mostly it's about sacrificing one group of people to our own needs. I want to live a certain way and so I will fight that they can live how they want as well.

The fact that God in the Bible is for traditional marriage is a bonus.


Is there a secular reason to be against homosexuality?

Do homosexuals hate their homosexuality?

Is the reason for gay marriage sacrificing one group for our own needs?


From:http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 91&start=0
Post 1: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 am Otseng has been banned
Otseng has been banned for having multiple accounts and impersonating a moderator.

DanieltheDragon
Savant
Posts: 6224
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:37 pm
Location: Charlotte
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #2

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

Lots of people Be edit from homosexuality. Firstly gender populations are never 1:1 moreover even among hetero populations finding a mate is not guaranteed. Sex has a number of benefits:
1. Improved immune system, while you can be at risk for std's shaking hands or breathing also outs you at risk for disease. Shaking hands won't improve your immune system. However sex can and does. Countless studies have shown that people wh are sexually active have much stronger immune systems than people who are not sexually active.

2.Reduces stress, sex often releases many hormones and neurotransmitters that trigger a reduction in cortisol production. Cortisol is produced when the body is stressed. It contributes to high blood pressure heart disease etc.

3.It improves emotional health.

4. It is a great exercise.

Homosexuality, offers an immense benefit to society as a whole, it keeps people healthier, happier and more in shape than they otherwise would be. It also provides a small reduction in our reproduction rates. Keeping our population from spiraling out of control.

The only reason, I can find against homosexuality is religious reasons can anyone provide a secular reason?
Post 1: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 am Otseng has been banned
Otseng has been banned for having multiple accounts and impersonating a moderator.

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9197
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 189 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #3

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 2 by DanieltheDragon]
The only reason, I can find against homosexuality is religious reasons can anyone provide a secular reason?
It's like saying 1 + 1 = 3. Anyone can see where the bits are meant to go. Were there a pattern test we would fail a child if they couldn't put the correct shapes in the correct holes and yet here we are trying to convince ourselves that homosexuality is normal.

Pattern matching seems fairly secular.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

DanieltheDragon
Savant
Posts: 6224
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:37 pm
Location: Charlotte
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #4

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 3 by Wootah]

That is kind of a simplistic approach to sexuality. There are additional purposes to sex other than reproduction.
African and Asian males will engage in same-sex bonding and mounting. Such encounters are often associated with affectionate interactions, such as kissing, trunk intertwining, and placing trunks in each other's mouths. Male elephants, who often live apart from the general herd, often form "companionships", consisting of an older individual and one or sometimes two younger males with sexual behavior being an important part of the social dynamic. Unlike heterosexual relations, which are always of a fleeting nature, the relationships between males may last for years. The encounters are analogous to heterosexual bouts, one male often extending his trunk along the other's back and pushing forward with his tusks to signify his intention to mount. Same-sex relations are common and frequent in both sexes, with Asiatic elephants in captivity devoting roughly 45% of sexual encounters to same-sex activity.[81]
Male giraffes have been observed to engage in remarkably high frequencies of homosexual behavior. After aggressive "necking", it is common for two male giraffes to caress and court each other, leading up to mounting and climax. Such interactions between males have been found to be more frequent than heterosexual coupling.[82] In one study, up to 94% of observed mounting incidents took place between two males. The proportion of same sex activities varied between 30 and 75%, and at any given time one in twenty males were engaged in non-combative necking behavior with another male. Only 1% of same-sex mounting incidents occurred between females.[83]

Perhaps best put
Dolphins of several species engage in homosexual acts, though it is best studied in the bottlenose dolphins.[3] Sexual encounters between females take the shape of "beak-genital propulsion", where one female inserts her beak in the genital opening of the other while swimming gently forward.[77] Between males, homosexual behaviour includes rubbing of genitals against each other, which sometimes leads to the males swimming belly to belly, inserting the penis in the others genital slit and sometimes anus.[78]

Janet Mann, Georgetown University professor of biology and psychology, argues that the strong personal behavior among male dolphin calves is about bond formation and benefits the species in an evolutionary context.[79] She cites studies showing that these dolphins later in life as adults are in a sense bisexual, and the male bonds forged earlier in life work together for protection as well as locating females to reproduce with. Confrontations between flocks of bottlenose dolphins and the related species Atlantic spotted dolphin will sometimes lead to cross-species homosexual behaviour between the males rather than combat.[80]


This fits into the context of my second post. Sex isn't just about reproduction especially in social animals, it forms emotional bonds it improves immune systems, and fosters greater emotional stability and satisfaction. Homosexuality throughout the animal kingdom usually follows in this paradigm especially in matriarchal social structures.


1+1=3 is not a secular argument against homosexuality try again.
Post 1: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 am Otseng has been banned
Otseng has been banned for having multiple accounts and impersonating a moderator.

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 9378
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1259 times

Re: Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #5

Post by Clownboat »

DanieltheDragon wrote:
I think this is all smoke screen. Forget religion Z, I do a lot more than you think. Disagreeing with homosexual marriage is not about religion but reality.

Homosexuality is a non religious issue. Nobody has any benefit in a great range of activities from homosexuality to head butting a brick wall. No one wants to be a homosexual, just like no one wants to be blind. So why enshrine homosexuality?

Since that is true then really what is the motive behind gay marriage?

Mostly it's about sacrificing one group of people to our own needs. I want to live a certain way and so I will fight that they can live how they want as well.

The fact that God in the Bible is for traditional marriage is a bonus.

Is there a secular reason to be against homosexuality?
Not that I am aware of.
Do homosexuals hate their homosexuality?
A homosexual living in most Christian homes I would assume hates it and in the end likely ends up hating himself.
Is the reason for gay marriage sacrificing one group for our own needs?
Perhaps I'm not clear on what is being asked.
Who suffers if gays are allowed to marry?
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 9378
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1259 times

Re: Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #6

Post by Clownboat »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 2 by DanieltheDragon]
The only reason, I can find against homosexuality is religious reasons can anyone provide a secular reason?
It's like saying 1 + 1 = 3. Anyone can see where the bits are meant to go. Were there a pattern test we would fail a child if they couldn't put the correct shapes in the correct holes and yet here we are trying to convince ourselves that homosexuality is normal.

Pattern matching seems fairly secular.
Please be specific. Which hole do you refer to that homosexuals use, but at the same time can't use because it doesn't fit?

Your argument is silly for one, but that is only my opinion. More importantly, it seems to defeat itself.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

DanieltheDragon
Savant
Posts: 6224
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:37 pm
Location: Charlotte
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #7

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 6 by Clownboat]

Well clearly dolphins have long snouts so that lesbian dolphins can go all the way.
Post 1: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 am Otseng has been banned
Otseng has been banned for having multiple accounts and impersonating a moderator.

User avatar
Excubis
Sage
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:56 am
Location: (nowhere you probaly heard of) Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #8

Post by Excubis »

[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]
Is there a secular reason to be against homosexuality?
Only if homosexuality was by large the vast majority of individuals sexual inclination. This would have a materialistic effect as per propagation of the species and therefore may threaten humanity's survival. Yet this is not the case at all and no statistics to supporst a raise per captia of homosexuality, especially since adequate baseline cannot be established. What I mean is we do not have a record of homosexuals in a truly open and accepting society towards sexual orientation. We are only now becoming more accepting and some more tolerant and therefore more people can live an open sexual lifestyle.
Do homosexuals hate their homosexuality?
Well I see this as a social problem entirely, since peer pressure in society by large tends to lean on a bias that straight is right and homosexuality is wrong. I have a skin condition called psoriasis and get dry scaling patches of skin. Now as a child I was constantly harassed for this and therefore hated it, same goes for my love of science over sports, because of these peer pressures I disliked these qualities about myself and therefore was unhappy. As I grew older I accepted these and din`t care what others thought and found myself and therefore contentment.

I see homosexuality in the same light as such and even racism. No one as a child wants to be the outcast and being such can define a large part of our attitudes and lifestyle choices in the future. Do people of color hate being of color or do they hate the bigotry of others because of their color. To me there is no difference since I do not see sexual orientation by large as a choice.
Is the reason for gay marriage sacrificing one group for our own needs?[\quote]

No.

Homosexuality is a non religious issue because it challenges a norm that even some atheist/agnostics are uncomfortable with, but the consequences on atheist & agnostics is not as great, yes some uncomfortably maybe felt but it isn't immoral evil needed to be fought and therefore generally does not raise a hate towards homosexuals. My little brother is gay and always has been, my current roommate(cousin) is also a gay male but says he is more homosexual due to circumstance. He himself says he was probably more inclined to bisexuality but abuse(manipulation as he says) occurred from such a young age he did not develop his own sexual identity but rather a conditioned one.

I find this interesting from a psychological perspective on a open homosexual male accepting his orientation as being conditioned and therefore also not a choice. We have had many conversations and both concluded that to surmise he was conditioned completely we cannot say since he enjoys his sexual experiences in a healthy way now. Again chicken or the egg?
"It should be possible to explain the laws of physics to a barmaid." Albert Einstein

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9197
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 189 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #9

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 6 by Clownboat]

My argument is silly - that's the point.

In any non emotional context people do not have difficulty putting square pegs in square holes. That will always be the root secular rational argument.

Intellectually it's silly to believe homosexuality is normal. Celebrating it is always going to be nonsense. It's only ever been an emperor's new clothes issue and the issue will be how much power the emperor has to make you see his splendid gown.

None of which doesn't mean I don't care or have compassion for my fellow man.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

DanieltheDragon
Savant
Posts: 6224
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:37 pm
Location: Charlotte
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Homosexuality a non religious issue?

Post #10

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to Wootah]

why is it silly to think homosexaulity is normal? i have given many reasons why homosexaul behavior exists in the animal kingdom and why it can be beneficial to a species. I listed 3 species with rates of homosexaul behavior exceeding 40%. Because something isnt common doesnt make it abnormal. Having red hair isn't common should we ban red hair? is red hair a threat to society?

you labor about when you take emotions out of it, but you haven't formed one non emotional argument. You go on about square peg round holes, but last I checked penises still fit in anuses tongues stimulate clitoruses and fingers fit in all sorts of holes.

For some women pleasure during sex occurs from the clitorus located outside the vagina and dont get stimulationin the vagina. The penis being the least adept apendage for the job. talk about square pegs and round holes right?
Post 1: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 am Otseng has been banned
Otseng has been banned for having multiple accounts and impersonating a moderator.

Post Reply