YOUR words, not mine. It's just another "religious document" that contains self-serving inaccuracies, like any other -- including the OT.Divine Insight wrote:I don't see where I'm the one digging any hole.cnorman19 wrote: You're just digging that hole deeper and deeper, and this is the deepest hole yet. You're not going to be able to ignore this ridiculous post and pretend you've never said any of this, as you have so many others here.
Maybe it's time to stop. Ya think?
If your claims are true then according to you the Christian New Testament is the most outrageous historical lies ever told.
Why do you keep denigrating and discounting my documented historical references and FACTS as "claims," like it's just ME saying these things? You may think that's a clever and subtle little propaganda technique, but it's actually just a veiled accusation of lying and a straight-up denial of historical facts.Apparently that would need to be true for your claims to be true.
I'm entirely indifferent to Jesus. Like many Christians, you seem to think that I'm obligated to think about Jesus a lot. In point of fact, Jews think about Jesus about as much as we think about the Buddha or Julius Caesar. We don't care.Where do you stand on Jesus?
I don't pretend to know whether Jesus existed or not. It seems to me probable that he did, but beyond that, all is guesswork. He probably did NOT say many of the things attributed to him in the Gospels -- too much of it sounds like Paul talking. If he did exist, he may have been an early "reformer," or a pretender to the Throne of Israel, or anything in between (Fake "messiahs" and "miracle men" were thick on the ground in his day, just as in our own). If he did exist, it seems very clear that he was a follower of Pharisaic Judaism (did you even bother to look at the thread I linked you to on that subject?), and was not particularly enamored of the corruption of the Temple.Do you believe that Jesus even existed? Apparently you do since you claim that Jesus himself was a Pharisees.
Do believe that Jesus was crucified? If so, who do you believe called for the crucifixion of Jesus, and who carried out that crucifixion?
Because according to you the Pharisees didn't have the Authority since you claim that the Sadducee were in charge of the Temple and interacted with the Roman Authorities.
In Josephus, it appears that the Pharisees of Jerusalem and the Sadducees put aside their differences when it came to eliminating Jesus; in any case, he was condemned by the Roman authorities, probably for sedition, since the Jews of the day had no authority to condemn anyone. Crucifixion was a Roman form of execution, not a Jewish one.
You didn't know that either, did you?
No. That's the claim that you keep trying to stuff in my mouth.If that's the case then the Christian New Testament is nothing but a pack of historical lies. Never mind any supernatural or divine claims.
Is that your claim?
The NT isn't my book, and I'm not particularly interested in it. You seem to think I should be outraged, and not only that, but that the Jews should have risen up against it two thousand years ago -- and gotten themselves killed en masse, of course.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't care about the inaccuracies, the misogyny, the antisemitism, and the miracle tales in the NT -- and I don't care about Jesus. Few Jews do. Those are the Christians' problems, not ours. We've got plenty of problems with the Gentile world without starting ANOTHER battle that was over 2,000 years ago.
I've explained that quite often enough -- Christianity got its "foothold" among Greeks and Romans, not Jews -- and I don't really care to keep telling the same things over and over till my face turns blue. You've proven often enough that you have no intention of ever listening, or changing your mind in any way; you are apparently compelled to be RIGHT, 100% of the time, and when you are PROVEN wrong, as you have been on this thread many more times than once, you just ignore it and forget about it and move on as if nothing happened. This is a pretty good example -- asking a question which has been answered for you multiple times.And if the Christian New Testament is that obviously false historically, then how in the world did it ever gain any respect or foothold?
That is, of course, a falsehood. Can you show me a number? Not likely; "Messianic" synagogues NEVER publish the numbers of actual former Jews who have become Christians. On the other hand, my small synagogue contains at least 20 members who are converts, including two entire families who converted all at once; former Christians who become Jews may very well outnumber Jews who become Christians.Even to the point where many Jews themselves have converted to Christianity.
Jews becoming Christians wasn't even happening in the first century.
There is much more at the link. Of course, you'll either ignore or deny all this too.......despite the evidence of Acts to the contrary, the Christian movement made very
little impression upon the Jewish people. Its Jewish membership probably never
exceeded 1,000 at any point in the first century, and by the 50s the Jewish
members were quite likely exceeded in number by their Gentile counterparts.
Why would any Jew convert to a religious scam that is so obviously dead wrong even on historical points?