Atheists

Argue for and against religions and philosophies which are not Christian

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Faithful One
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Atheists

Post #1

Post by Faithful One »

Seems the online community of atheist outnumbers the Christian online community , when it comes to discussing religion . This has been my personal experience for over a decade of debating with atheists. Why do you think this is , also, do you think this is a fair statement , as far as being outnumbered online?

I do not believe this is the case as far as the U.S population as a whole goes , meaning more believe in God, or some type of creator or God , than do not believe in some type of God , but online they seem to outnumber believers in God , or a God.

What do you think sparks this curiosity, if you feel this is a curiosity , if not please state what you think the motivation is then.
Last edited by Faithful One on Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Atheists

Post #2

Post by Divine Insight »

Faithful One wrote: What do you think sparks this curiosity?
From my perspective this is the wrong question to ask. It also makes the totally incorrect assumption that atheists are "curious about god, or religion".

For the most part "atheists" and more importantly "anti-theists" do not speak out against the Abrahamic Religions because they are "curious" about them. Instead, they speak out against them because they see these religions as being harmful to humanity and society on many levels.

Also many "atheists" were theists, (often Christians) before realizing that the religion cannot possibly be true. So they come to share their experiences of how they have come to this realization.

And finally, many people who you might think of a "atheists" may not be atheists at all. For example, I'm quite open to the possibility of a mystical essence to reality, and the possibility of some form or "God" potentially existing. So I'm totally open to the concept of a "God" or a spiritual essence to reality.

I still speak out against the Abraham religions because of their immoral teachings and principles. I can also see that they cannot possibly be true in any case. Even if there is a supreme being it's clearly not like the one described in any of the Abrahamic Religions. The Abrahamic God has a mentality equivalent to they way that ancient barbarians think. And this is no surprising since this God was indeed invented by ancient barbarians. So it's rational to understand why their God would think and behave precisely as they behaved.

Finally, many of the "believers" that you refer to in the real world don't actually believe in the Biblical God anyway. What they actually believe in is an idealistic faith that some supreme creator who actually represents perfect love, understanding, and justice exists. Most of these believers either don't even know what the Bible actually has to say, or they dismiss most of it by pretending that the Bible doesn't really mean what it says in any case (i.e. they turn to non-literal interpretations that draw conclusions far removed from the Bible actually says.)

In short, most "believers in God" don't truly believe in the God described in the Bible at all. What they actually believe in is a totally fabricated ideal of God that they have created in their own minds.
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Re: Atheists

Post #3

Post by Faithful One »

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

From my perspective this is the wrong question to ask. It also makes the totally incorrect assumption that atheists are "curious about god, or religion".
First off, my OP , states that it "seems" this way , as I am constantly asked questions by atheists in debate . Why is this then, why is that then, if your God is so loving why does he do this ? This gives me the impression of curiously , not a concern of humanity

I am not stating your point is false , as it probably is not , but this does mean curiosity does not play a role either.

Also many "atheists" were theists, (often Christians) before realizing that the religion cannot possibly be true. So they come to share their experiences of how they have come to this realization.

My experience is more of a constant badgering for evidence. This is true on my latest threads with atheists here . I have heard no testimonials of why they are , or became atheists. I would welcome the chance to hear why they are atheist or decided to become atheists. This quest for evidence seems to go to curiosity. IMO .



And finally, many people who you might think of a "atheists" may not be atheists at all. For example, I'm quite open to the possibility of a mystical essence to reality, and the possibility of some form or "God" potentially existing. So I'm totally open to the concept of a "God" or a spiritual essence to reality.

Then you are not an atheists . The word atheists comes from the Greek word "Atheos ", meaning simply "with out gods" , plural . One can not be "kinda atheists" can they ?




Finally, many of the "believers" that you refer to in the real world don't actually believe in the Biblical God anyway.

Which is why I state "God , or a God", meaning any deity other than the Lord , Christ .

I also rephrased my question to make it more fair , as you pointed out the blanket assumption was not fair., I believe you were correct .
Last edited by Faithful One on Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Atheists

Post #4

Post by Divine Insight »

Faithful One wrote: Seems the online community of atheist outnumbers the Christian online community , when it comes to discussing religion .
By the way, have you ever thought to ask why it is that there aren't more theists arguing for the Biblical picture of God?

Something I've noticed that perhaps you haven't is that most theists would actually prefer to not have to defend the Bible. Especially not verbatim (this is why they seek non-literal interpretations).

The other important thing to realize is that theists are highly divided between themselves in what they actually believe. Quite often I've seen theists arguing against atheists, only to realize that their own views are clashing and they end up arguing with each other over their different view of theism.

So when a theist comes onto this site, not only will they find arguments with atheists, but they will certainly end up in conflicts with other theists as well.

In fact, turning back to the "Real World" again, just look around. The "theists" don't even remotely represent a single group by far. They are extremely divided amongst themselves. They may all claim to have a single thing in common (a belief in God), but when it comes to defining that God and what that God supposedly expects from humans they are extremely divided against each other.

In the Abrahamic world we see Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all passionately disagreeing with each other about who and what "God" even is.

In Islam we see the Shia and Sunni, and other sects in fierce disagreement with each other over their God "Allah".

In Christianity we see Catholicism and Protestantism in grave disagreements over Jesus and Yahweh.

Within Catholicism we see disagreement between Popes and Bishops, etc.

The Protestantisms have continued to fragment in what appears to be an endless fractal of fragmentation. They can't agree with each other on how they want to think of God either.

So when you try to lump in believers versus atheists, that's actually a false illusion, and a false dichotomy to begin with. Because most "believers" don't even agree with each other. They don't all "believe" the same things.

And that's probably a large part of why they don't even want to bother trying to debate their "faith". They would end up debating with other "believers", not just with the "atheists", "anti-theists", and "non-theists"
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Re: Atheists

Post #5

Post by Divine Insight »

Faithful One wrote: [Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

From my perspective this is the wrong question to ask. It also makes the totally incorrect assumption that atheists are "curious about god, or religion".
First off, my OP , states that it "seems" this way , as I am constantly asked questions by atheists in debate . Why is this then, why is that then, if your God is so loving why does he do this ? This gives me the impression of curiously , not a concern of humanity

I am not stating your point is false , as it probably is not , but this does mean curiosity does not play a role either.
I don't see this as being the same kind of "curiosity" that you seem to be implying that it might be.

I don't think these atheists are expecting you to come back with an answer that actually makes any sense. They are most likely asking these question rhetorically in an attempt to try to get you to realize that your justifications for this God are going to be endless and futile. (at least in terms of justifying the Biblical portrait of God).

I doubt very seriously that any of these atheists are asking you because they are "curious" to know how this God can be justified. They already know that that's never going to happen.
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Re: Atheists

Post #6

Post by Faithful One »

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]
By the way, have you ever thought to ask why it is that there aren't more theists arguing for the Biblical picture of God?
This mode of thinking is what actually brought me to this question , as I am wondering in my first days here , "where are all the Christians ?". I thought it would be different, but it seems not to be, although I also still have many forums yet to experience .

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Re: Atheists

Post #7

Post by Paprika »

Faithful One wrote: Seems the online community of atheist outnumbers the Christian online community , when it comes to discussing religion . This has been my personal experience for over a decade of debating with atheists. Why do you think this is , also, do you think this is a fair statement , as far as being outnumbered online?
I'm not sure what you mean by 'discussing religion'. If you mean discussion over whether God exists then as far as I have observed you're right: lots of atheists are angry at God or Christians and thus need an outlet, while Christians don't generally have a similar impulse that induces them to defend the faith as vigorously. However, there are many Christians who discuss and disagree fervently about the details of their faith.

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Re: Atheists

Post #8

Post by Divine Insight »

Paprika wrote: lots of atheists are angry at God or Christians and thus need an outlet.
I think this is also a misconception made by many Christians.

Atheists most certainly aren't angry at any God since they don't believe an God exists. That accusation clearly comes from the Christian camp.

I also believe that most atheists aren't even angry at "Christians" although they may be angry with the creators of the religion, and specifically with the authors of the original dogma.

They also may be upset (if not angry) that Christianity has indeed been indoctrinated into the minds of so many people by religious authorities and organized religious institutions.

And finally, they have a right to be angry with "Christians" who want to put their faith-based beliefs into law in the name of their imaginary God. A God that is depicted in the Bible as being highly immoral, misogynistic, homophobic, and had biblical endorsed the keeping and beating of slaves, etc.

I think any atheist is more than justified in being "angry" that any modern day human would actually support such obviously immoral ancient superstitions in the name of a supposedly benevolent loving God.

The religion itself can be seen as an insult to human intelligence. Many popular atheists and scientists have voiced this perspective.

And therefore it's quite natural to become angry with a religious institution that is trying to use a God concept to enforce ignorance and immorality upon the atheists via governmental laws.

The anger in that respect is quite justifiable.

And this is especially true in light of 9/11 and many of the religiously motivated violence since that time. Our world today is experiencing great atrocities in the name of these Abrahamic superstitions.

This more than justifies the anger of atheists toward these violent immoral religions. No God required.
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Post #9

Post by OnceConvinced »

I believe the Internet is so popular with non-believers, because it creates and equal playing field. They can speak up against the evils and lies of religion. They can answer back. Unlike TV, radio, books, magazines, tracts, preaching in the pulpit, nobody can answer back. They just have to listen or read. With the Internet it's a lot more interactive. You can argue. You can debate.

Religionists don't get it all their own way on the Internet.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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Re: Atheists

Post #10

Post by Faithful One »

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]
So when you try to lump in believers versus atheists, that's actually a false illusion, and a false dichotomy to begin with. Because most "believers" don't even agree with each other. They don't all "believe" the same things.

And that's probably a large part of why they don't even want to bother trying to debate their "faith". They would end up debating with other "believers", not just with the "atheists", "anti-theists", and "non-theists"

I am not trying to lump anyone into anything . My point of asking the question is to get all perspectives. This is not about the debate itself , more than to ask why ones who do not believe in God, or any God , discuss religion so much . There has never been a shortage for me to debate . I believe we are now bordering on the definition of ironic .



I doubt very seriously that any of these atheists are asking you because they are "curious" to know how this God can be justified. They already know that that's never going to happen.

I think that might be exactly why they are asking, as I stated earlier , there seems to be a constant " badgering " for evidence . So your one answer was because they want to explain why they are atheist, but if not curiosity , then you are saying just to purvey their opinion on how "evil", or "immoral" God is.

Which the latter is surely true , from my experiences . This is a recurring theme in the debates. So that one is true.

I believe it could be viewed as arguing perspectives , more than certainties , but they are certainties to the True Christians, view or any other religion they are arguing with, that believes in the divine .

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