Should Atheists Use God for their own benefit?

[BwhoUR]

Atheists use God, Jesus and the Bible to argue with the religious in religious debate and it is assumed we do so in order that we can prove something based on the "evidence" we have. Evidence which religious persons bring up as proof we argue with, even though we don't believe the Bible was written by God, etc.

It is obvious when we do so here, in an open forum when we admit we are Atheists. Is it also okay to use god or religion for our own good in other ways? Can we hide our Atheism when we do it? Here is an example: My City is run by conservative Christians, I grow pot legally in my State (stay with me, people) My grow area was lacking a posted reccomendation. I was cited and fined $100.00. I of course am fighting the fine on principle because under normal circumstances, an oversight like this would call for a written notice and 10 days to fix with no fine and the Code provides for that. Since the Christian cops around here think pot is for sinners, I felt it would help me to even the playing field to say my medicine was natural, "as God intended."

Was this moral? Does it matter if I don't believe that but know that they might? If I know God influences people, is it okay to use the power for good?

[Divine Insight]

Was this moral? Does it matter if I don't believe that but know that they might? If I know God influences people, is it okay to use the power for good?

I doubt it would help in any case. Their God created the poppy plant too. Does that mean that their God expects everyone to become a heroin addict?

So there's really no point in bringing their God into the picture anyway. We can't trust that what their God creates is any good.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by suckka]

I would encourage you to try out being a Christian and see if you notice any benefits and slowly build trust in God.

One of the good things about the supposed decline of Christianity is that many people will not feel the need to hide amongst the Christians. Then you may have a police force that might truly fear.

[Wootah]

Was this moral? Does it matter if I don't believe that but know that they might? If I know God influences people, is it okay to use the power for good?

I doubt it would help in any case. Their God created the poppy plant too. Does that mean that their God expects everyone to become a heroin addict?

So there's really no point in bringing their God into the picture anyway. We can't trust that what their God creates is any good.

And cliffs are made by God for jumping off? Oceans are for drowning in? Outer space for suffocation. The sun to burn us. Winter to freeze us.

[BwhoUR]

[Replying to post 1 by suckka]

I would encourage you to try out being a Christian and see if you notice any benefits and slowly build trust in God.

One of the good things about the supposed decline of Christianity is that many people will not feel the need to hide amongst the Christians. Then you may have a police force that might truly fear.

I was a Christian when I was younger and my husband's father is a preacher. With all due respect, I will never again believe in a god nor could ever believe the bible is the word of god. Many people I am sure use religion as you state, for money and power (Hitler and L. Ron Hubbard come to mind), and I am sure many self-proclaimed Christians don't really believe but are using religion this way, politicians do as well, to keep their votes. I now feel bad being in their company, but should I? Is it not a Christian's fault for allowing themselves to be so easily manipulated? And if they are influenced by their religious beliefs while in a legal position, isn't it necessary to manipulate against their "beliefs?"

[BwhoUR]

Was this moral? Does it matter if I don't believe that but know that they might? If I know God influences people, is it okay to use the power for good?

I doubt it would help in any case. Their God created the poppy plant too. Does that mean that their God expects everyone to become a heroin addict?

So there's really no point in bringing their God into the picture anyway. We can't trust that what their God creates is any good.

I hear what your saying, that those with strong anti-drug beliefs would feel no differently about weed than heroin, even though the there is a process for making a poppy into heroin unlike marijuana which needs no processing. But if there is a chance to manipulate them I see no harm in trying, is there any harm?

[Divine Insight]

And cliffs are made by God for jumping off?

A truly intelligent designing creator should have given us the ability to fly when he created gravity so that if we happen to fall off a cliff we could save ourselves.

Oceans are for drowning in?

A truly intelligent designing creator should have maintained our ability to breath underwater when he had us transition from the sea to the land. Then we never need to worry about drowning.

Outer space for suffocation.

A truly intelligent designing creator should have dsigned outer space to be filled with air. Remember all he would have needed to do was say, "Let there be air", and air there would be.

The sun to burn us.

A truly intelligent designing creator should have created it so that sunlight would not be harmful to us. Nor would it blind us if we look directly into the sun for extended periods of time.

Winter to freeze us.

I'm working hard right now to rebuild my outdoor woodstove boiler and then I'll need to get busy cutting down the forest (the natural habitat of other animals) so I can pollute the air with carbon dioxide and contribute to global warming.

Surely God could have foreseen that winters would place unnecessary hardships on both humans and the environment.

A truly intelligent designing creator should have designed the season changes to be far milder.

So when I think about your suggestions I would say that there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with smoking a joint. That pales in comparison with the atrocities that God created for us.

[Divine Insight]

I hear what your saying, that those with strong anti-drug beliefs would feel no differently about weed than heroin, even though the there is a process for making a poppy into heroin unlike marijuana which needs no processing. But if there is a chance to manipulate them I see no harm in trying, is there any harm?

If manipulating Christians is immoral than clearly so is the Bible and the preachers who preach from it.

From my perspective the most likely "harm" that might come from this is your very own feelings of guilt for having done it. Apparently this issue is very close to your own personal values, especially if you feel you need to bounce this off other people.

My suggestion to you would be to remain true to your own values. That's the paramount issue. Apparently you seem to feel that preying on the superstitions of other people would be "immoral" by your standards. If that's the case, then don't do it, you'll only feel bad about letting yourself down in terms of your own moral standards.

On the other hand, if you feel that using people's superstitions against them is "moral" then have at it. Like I say, preachers do this all the time. Especially the Television Evangelists. For them it's nothing more than a money-making racket based entirely upon preying on the superstitious beliefs of others.

And now that I have compared your proposed behavior with that of television evangelists, what do you think you should do?

[FinalEnigma]

And cliffs are made by God for jumping off?

A truly intelligent designing creator should have given us the ability to fly when he created gravity so that if we happen to fall off a cliff we could save ourselves.

Oceans are for drowning in?

A truly intelligent designing creator should have maintained our ability to breath underwater when he had us transition from the sea to the land. Then we never need to worry about drowning.

Outer space for suffocation.

A truly intelligent designing creator should have dsigned outer space to be filled with air. Remember all he would have needed to do was say, "Let there be air", and air there would be.

The sun to burn us.

A truly intelligent designing creator should have created it so that sunlight would not be harmful to us. Nor would it blind us if we look directly into the sun for extended periods of time.

Winter to freeze us.

I'm working hard right now to rebuild my outdoor woodstove boiler and then I'll need to get busy cutting down the forest (the natural habitat of other animals) so I can pollute the air with carbon dioxide and contribute to global warming.

Surely God could have foreseen that winters would place unnecessary hardships on both humans and the environment.

A truly intelligent designing creator should have designed the season changes to be far milder.

So when I think about your suggestions I would say that there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with smoking a joint. That pales in comparison with the atrocities that God created for us.

You seem quite opposed to aspects of the natural world. Should God have removed all possible sources of suffering, illness, and death?

[Divine Insight]

You seem quite opposed to aspects of the natural world. Should God have removed all possible sources of suffering, illness, and death?

I think a far better question would be to ask why a truly loving benevolent God wouldn't have?

Also, why give humans the natural example of a dog-eat-dog world where just about every animal God creates tends to eat other animals? Save for a very few herbivores?

So yes, I believe that if a "Designer God" exists that God should have indeed designed a very nice world.

In fact, I might be inclined to believe in such a God if humans were the only animal who behaved "immorally".

If you could take humans off the earth and show that without humans the earth would be a perfectly moral place, then I might be inclined to consider a religion that tries to pin the blame for everything wrong on humans.

However the truth is that if all humans were removed from the earth animals would still be suffering from horrible diseases, eating each other and killing each others babies.

So humans are hardly a factor at all.

Yet Christianity wants to pin the blame for all the evils of the world squarely on the shoulders of humans.

It's clearly a false religion.

Atheism (or secularism) is the most likely truth of reality. That's just the most practical rational answer. Period.

~~~~~~

If you've read many of my posts you no doubt know that I also consider that some mystical concepts of "God" may be possible. But those philosophies explain why "God" allows bad things to happen. They also have a totally different view of the very nature of what "God" even is. Christianity most certainly doesn't address these issues in any convincing way. Their argument that evil is necessary for "free will" to exist is absolute baloney. There is no reason that creatures can't have free will and still not be evil. So pinning the blame on free will doesn't cut it either.