This Pope is Special

[Danmark]

I am not a theist, but there is something special about Pope Francis.
We can all learn something from him.
The most important things cannot be put into words.

[Divine Insight]

I agree that he's a great Pope. And certainly special among Popes. However, the idea that we can all learn something from him seems a bit of a stretch to me. I think there are many people who have expressed similar views. Ironically many of those people are atheists.

I do wish the American people would consider what this Pope has said:

"But there is another temptation which we must especially guard against: the simplistic reductionism which sees only good or evil; or, if you will, the righteous and sinners. The contemporary world, with its open wounds which affect so many of our brothers and sisters, demands that we confront every form of polarization which would divide it into these two camps." - Pope Francis

I totally agree with this sentiment.

[Danmark]

What this Pope can do, and is doing, is to help move people beyond partisan politics and into a frame of mind where they do what is right irrespective of political and religious considerations. He is helping all people move to the center which is about helping others rather than cheering for their side.

[jeager106]

I'm not even close to being Catholic but this Pope seems a special
man full of love and wisdom.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

I dislike the Pope and all he stands for with a deep loathing that "cannot be put into words".


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

I dislike the Pope and all he stands for with a deep loathing that "cannot be put into words".


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

This says more about you than about the Pope.

To the extent you represent 'Witnesses' it also speaks poorly of them.
Many religions speak of love as the center of their meaning and purpose, but many adherents exemplify hatred and intolerance.

[catnip]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

Like others here, I am not Catholic, but I do admire him. He is a very fair man and, God bless him!, he is fighting some very hard fights. And all so humbly.

[catnip]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

I dislike the Pope and all he stands for with a deep loathing that "cannot be put into words".


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

This prejudice--and you are not alone--is, I am sorry to say, very unChristian. To loathe anyone is unChristian. To loathe a person who has done nothing to deserve it is horrible. A benign disinterest would be much more Christian than to claim such a deep loathing.

Remember that God works in mysterious ways. And there is no reason why God would not work in a Catholic priest/pope anymore than in a Jehovah's Witness. God is no respecter of persons.

1 John says something about the unloving. Check it out.

[Divine Insight]

This prejudice--and you are not alone--is, I am sorry to say, very unChristian. To loathe anyone is unChristian. To loathe a person who has done nothing to deserve it is horrible. A benign disinterest would be much more Christian than to claim such a deep loathing.

While I agree with your overall sentiment doesn't this truly present us with a huge problem?

You say that this type of behavior is very unChristian, but is it unChristlike?

Obviously not. Jesus clearly had a very great loathing for the Pharisees. He publicly hated on them and proclaimed that the will receive the greater damnation. That's hatred to the hilt.

So it's very "Christlike" to hate those who disagree with your values.

Some Christians argue that it was ok for Jesus to hate on the Pharisees because he was "God". And they argue that Christians are not to follow Jesus' example, but to only do as Jesus taught, not as he actually did.

So in that sense you can make a case that it is "unChristian" to hate on those who's values you disagree with. But trying to make a case that it's "unChristlike" would be far more difficult.

Maybe the Jehovah's Witnesses think that going around behaving like Christ and hating on everyone who disagrees with them is ok since this amounts to "Christlike" behavior.

This was clearly the example that Christ gave us.

If we are to be like Christ we must hate on those who disagree with us and publicly ridicule and defile them proclaiming that they will receive the greater damnation just as Jesus had shown us how to do this using the Pharisees as his prime example.

Only then can we become "Christlike".

~~~~~~~

Edited to add: I don't support this line of thinking, but at the same time, I can't help but point out the fact that this line of thinking is problematic for this religion.

[catnip]

This prejudice--and you are not alone--is, I am sorry to say, very unChristian. To loathe anyone is unChristian. To loathe a person who has done nothing to deserve it is horrible. A benign disinterest would be much more Christian than to claim such a deep loathing.

While I agree with your overall sentiment doesn't this truly present us with a huge problem?

You say that this type of behavior is very unChristian, but is it unChristlike?

Obviously not. Jesus clearly had a very great loathing for the Pharisees. He publicly hated on them and proclaimed that the will receive the greater damnation. That's hatred to the hilt.

Shall we look at his exact criticisms? That is what is telling. Which is what I suggested above: If a person legitimately deserves criticism and for a reason, say what that is. You will find a good sampling of what Jesus had to say to the Pharisees here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NET

But do note: He did say it to the Pharisees and doctors of the Law. He was criticizing their application of the Law.

Otherwise, it is amusing at times to do a search on a single word, such as "Pharisee" on Bible Gateway or Bible Hub and see the results. It appears that most mentions of the word in the Gospels are things that Pharisees said and did to try to trap Jesus and to attempt to discredit him.

It isn't wrong to criticize someone's teachings or practice. While Jesus' teaching tends to hint at both the Pharisee beliefs and a bit of Essene theology, many think Jesus himself was a Pharisee and he often teaches similarly to Hillel the Elder and the Academy of Hillel.

So it's very "Christlike" to hate those who disagree with your values.

No, it isn't. Or that would make him a hypocrite. He agreed with the Pharisees on the Great Commandment and the Second--love of God and love of neighbor and he spelled it out in the Sermon on the Mount in specific instruction, such as loving the least among us, etc. Loathing their application of the Law is specific, as in "You give your tithes of mint, cumin and dill; but you forget the weightier matters of the Law: justice, mercy and good faith."

Some Christians argue that it was ok for Jesus to hate on the Pharisees because he was "God". And they argue that Christians are not to follow Jesus' example, but to only do as Jesus taught, not as he actually did.

Disagreeing with someone on the basis of specific subjects is not hating. I don't hate you because you and I disagree on so much.

I would be delighted to continue this discussion more in depth if you care to start a thread elsewhere on the subject.

So in that sense you can make a case that it is "unChristian" to hate on those who's values you disagree with. But trying to make a case that it's "unChristlike" would be far more difficult.

A person may hate the very concept of popes in general--even I am anti-papist, if you will. And not being Catholic, I dislike more popes than I like. On the other hand, I can point to doctrine--biblical teaching--that I agree or disagree with. In the case of Francis, I have no case against him. Those are his values, and yes, I think he is very Christlike. Even where I disagree with him, he takes a more tolerant view of those who differ with him, and I have to admire that.

Maybe the Jehovah's Witnesses think that going around behaving like Christ and hating on everyone who disagrees with them is ok since this amounts to "Christlike" behavior.

This was clearly the example that Christ gave us.

If we are to be like Christ we must hate on those who disagree with us and publicly ridicule and defile them proclaiming that they will receive the greater damnation just as Jesus had shown us how to do this using the Pharisees as his prime example.

Only then can we become "Christlike".

~~~~~~~

Edited to add: I don't support this line of thinking, but at the same time, I can't help but point out the fact that this line of thinking is problematic for this religion.

It is perhaps more common among the Evangelicals/Fundamentalists who do not ever actually read and study the scriptures in context in depth than those from other quarters of Christendom. I could malign anyone if I judged them by one sentence taken out of context of the whole of what they said--but that would be a lie if the intent of what they were saying were anything else.