This Pope is Special

[Danmark]

I am not a theist, but there is something special about Pope Francis.
We can all learn something from him.
The most important things cannot be put into words.

[Divine Insight]

It isn't wrong to criticize someone's teachings or practice.

No not at all. But that's hardly what Jesus did with the Pharisees. In fact, if he had actually done that in a rational manner he would have looked more mature and intelligent.

Instead he sat around giving public rants like the following:

Matt.23

[13] But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
[14] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
[15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[25] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
[29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous

Matt.23

[16] Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
[17] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
[19] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
[24] Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
[26] Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.


This is hardly criticizing someone's teachings. This is an all-out hate rant.

And Jesus himself taught that to call someone a "fool" will place you in danger of hell fire. Yet here he is giving us a prime example of how it's ok to sit around calling people fools.

Again, if you want to be "Christlike" then sitting around hating on people, calling them fools and condemning them is perfectly acceptable.

Apparently all you need to do is feel justified in your disagreement with their position on things.

[catnip]

It isn't wrong to criticize someone's teachings or practice.

No not at all. But that's hardly what Jesus did with the Pharisees. In fact, if he had actually done that in a rational manner he would have looked more mature and intelligent.

Instead he sat around giving public rants like the following:

Matt.23

[13] But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
[14] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
[15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[25] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
[29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous

Matt.23

[16] Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
[17] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
[19] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
[24] Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
[26] Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.


This is hardly criticizing someone's teachings. This is an all-out hate rant.

He is criticizing their hypocrisy and lack of application of the Law they know. You do know what the word "woe" means, don't you? Just in case:

great sorrow or distress.
"they had a complicated tale of woe"
synonyms: misery, sorrow, distress, wretchedness, sadness, unhappiness, heartache, heartbreak, despondency, despair, depression, regret, gloom, melancholy; More
adversity, misfortune, disaster, suffering, hardship;
literarydolor
"a tale of woe"
antonyms: joy, happiness

things that cause sorrow or distress; troubles.
"to add to his woes, customers have been spending less"
synonyms: trouble, difficulty, problem, trial, tribulation, misfortune, setback, reverse
"financial woes"

And Jesus himself taught that to call someone a "fool" will place you in danger of hell fire. Yet here he is giving us a prime example of how it's ok to sit around calling people fools.

If he is speaking in general, he is not speaking to anyone in particular. And what they are doing--if they continue to do it--they will end up in hell anyway.

Again, if you want to be "Christlike" then sitting around hating on people, calling them fools and condemning them is perfectly acceptable.

Apparently all you need to do is feel justified in your disagreement with their position on things.

lol I don't hear him saying these things hatefully. I don't hear "woe" as a threat, but a warning. The faith they are supposed to be following is ancient. They are doctors of the Law. People are terrible hypocrites. This is why Christians so often say that there are modern day Pharisees.

Besides, Jesus didn't write it.

[tugofwarstrum]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

I don't really like the position of the Pope but this one Pope I hold a little hope in that he might turn around the centuries of destruction that past popes have caused by either allowing or covering up actions by the priests and upholding ideas that hurt others such as contraceptive is evil and should never be used

[marakorpa]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

What more could you want: He has now allowed Priests to forgive abortions in the parishes. I would imaging you would be charged according to the month of pregnancy. This might even open up a bit more money making for the Vatican, the clergy might start doing the abortions and then forgiving themselves.

And have a look at the Utube video where a little girl asks this Pope why little children are so abused in today's world.

The knowledgeable answer from the Viceroy of Jesus Christ said: "I don't know, there are many things we don't know." Yeah! You wouldn't want the Catholic Church giving away secrets like that would ya' LOL

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 3 by Danmark]

What this Pope can do, and is doing, is to help move people beyond partisan politics and into a frame of mind where they do what is right irrespective of political and religious considerations. He is helping all people move to the center which is about helping others rather than cheering for their side.

I am sorry to burst some of the bubble, but I think the reason you see him like that is precisely because you are partisan and don't realize it. Most of those who think this current Pope is so amazing is because they think he leans politically to the left which is more in line with their views.

I like the Pope too. Of course I had a great fondness for Pope Benedict and JPII as well. All these men are special. I am continually amused however when non Catholics actually think some new Pope might now finally change certain Church teachings -- LOL!

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 5 by JehovahsWitness]

I dislike the Pope and all he stands for with a deep loathing that "cannot be put into words".

Is this something specific to Pope Francis or all Popes? It is difficult to imagine anyone having a deep loathing toward Francis or say JPII. Have they ever said or done anything that you find mean or hateful?

[marco]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

I dislike the Pope and all he stands for with a deep loathing that "cannot be put into words".

I have just noticed this comment. When our beliefs tell us to dislike someone to this extent either the person we dislike is the equivalent of a mass murderer or our beliefs are seriously flawed. Francis is no mass murderer.

The man does his best to live in imitation of Christ's injunction to love our neighbour, to be concerned for those in need and spread the message of peace to the best of our abilities. What set of values would oppose such goodness?

[Kenisaw]

[Replying to post 5 by JehovahsWitness]

I dislike the Pope and all he stands for with a deep loathing that "cannot be put into words".

Is this something specific to Pope Francis or all Popes? It is difficult to imagine anyone having a deep loathing toward Francis or say JPII. Have they ever said or done anything that you find mean or hateful?

I find it fascinating that both the Pope and JW claim the exact same book and the exact same god creature as the foundation for their belief systems...

[marco]

I find it fascinating that both the Pope and JW claim the exact same book and the exact same god creature as the foundation for their belief systems...

It is fascinating different messages can be extracted from the reported sayings of Jesus. Francis seems too innocent for his own good, but he obviously tries to live as his Lord instructed. Christ's chosen vessels can be good or bad; Francis may be a nice man but Alexander Borgia wasn't. And Christ himself made a big mistake in trusting Judas. Oh, well, the best of us can make mistakes.

[RightReason]

[Replying to Kenisaw]

I find it fascinating that both the Pope and JW claim the exact same book and the exact same god creature as the foundation for their belief systems...

Why? One could argue that if human beings were created by a higher being, then we would long to know our creator. And since there is historical truth regarding the man Jesus Christ, the start of His Church, and historical correlation to Scripture, why would it be fascinating that both the Catholic religion and the JW faith share many similarities?

The differences of course come down to an understanding of history and faith in where authority lies in interpreting Scripture. I personally believe Jesus Christ existed, established His Church (to who He gave authority). His Church then gave us Sacred Scripture and holds the power to interpret said Sacred Scripture, hence the necessity of recognizing BOTH Sacred Tradition (the Church) and Sacred Scripture as important and vital.

JW’s take said Sacred Scripture and developed or created their own interpretation/understanding of it. It is my opinion that in doing so, they might have gotten some things right, but in other cases got some things very wrong. Once they left the established Church (who Christ said, “He who hears you, hears me . . . “) they were no longer assured they were getting it right. This of course applies to each and every Christian denomination that broke off from Christ’s established Church and why all can believe in the same God, the same book, and yet still have so many very different beliefs.