Why no women Biblical authors?

[Haven]

Note: this thread operates under the assumption that the Christian god exists and conservative Christianity is true. For the sake of argument, please limit your criticisms to internal critiques of conservative Christian belief.

The Bible, which contains 66 books (Catholics have a few more), is believed by conservative Christians to be the inerrant, inspired word of God. Despite this, conservative Christians believe that humans wrote the Bible while being guided by God. All of the authors who contributed to the Bible are believed to be men; not a single woman was involved in the process.

Debate questions: Why weren't women tasked with writing the Bible? Why are there no women Biblical authors? Does the Christian god have a bias against women writing his words? Is the Christian god misogynistic for not including women in the writing process?

[tam]

Well, it was a council who chose what books to put in, so if there were none in from women, then that is more on the council who decided what to include when making up the collection of books that we call the Bible.


If there were no women who wrote anything down, then that does not mean that God had something against them. Could simply be that none wanted to or could write something down. Maybe they even took their stuff to their husbands, who in turn were given credit for what was given to the woman.

It is the world that has been misogynistic. Not God.

Because women are able to prophecy, hear the Spirit, receive holy spirit, dream dreams (from the Spirit), receive visions and revelations, etc... all the same as men.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[puddleglum]

God created men and women to fill different roles.

The most obvious difference is seen in the process of reproduction. It is the woman who carries the baby in her body until it is able to live in the outside world. She produces the milk the baby needs until it is old enough to digest solid food. Does the fact that no man is able to do this mean that God is biased against men?

Each sex has different rights and responsibilities i marriage.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word.
(Ephesians 5:22-26 ESV)

The husband must love his wife enough to be willing to sacrifice his life for her; the wife must submit to her husband and obey him.

(Marriage is intended to show the relationship between Christ and the church. That means marriage can only be between a man and a woman because a union of two men or two women doesn't accurately illustrate the relationship.)

Finally God has decreed that men have the responsibility for teaching and exercising spiritual leadership.

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
(1 Timothy 2:11-15 ESV)

The fact that only men were used to write the Bible doesn't mean that they are superior to women but that they play a different role in God's plan.

[Haven]

God created men and women to fill different roles.

The most obvious difference is seen in the process of reproduction. It is the woman who carries the baby in her body until it is able to live in the outside world. She produces the milk the baby needs until it is old enough to digest solid food. Does the fact that no man is able to do this mean that God is biased against men?

Actually, there have been some pregnant men.

With that aside, why do biological differences imply differences in voice, leadership, and so on? Only people with uteruses can give birth, but anyone can write. The fact that God (again, we're assuming Christianity is true for this debate) felt the need to exclude the female perspective from his supposed "word" for all humanity (when women make up nearly 50% of humanity) seems asinine.

Each sex has different rights and responsibilities i marriage.

This makes no sense for a few reasons:

1. Not all marriages are mixed-sex; there are same-sex marriages.

2. Why would it make sense to segregate rights and responsibilities on sex (not even gender, but biological sex?)? Why not give people the same rights and responsibilities, or the same rights but different responsibilities based on individual abilities (if you say this is impractical, remember that God is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient)? Or better yet, why not just let the married partners work it out among themselves?

The husband must love his wife enough to be willing to sacrifice his life for her; the wife must submit to her husband and obey him.

This is oppressive patriarchal nonsense. What about men makes them inherently more qualified to lead, and what about women makes them inherently followers who must "submit and obey" (like a child or slave?!)? Scientific studies have shown that women and men have equivalent abilities in terms of leadership and rational thought, so why must woman follow man? What kind of god would set up such an absurd system? What you've described sounds far more like a parent-young child relationship than a marriage partnership, and honestly I find that very disturbing.

(Marriage is intended to show the relationship between Christ and the church. That means marriage can only be between a man and a woman because a union of two men or two women doesn't accurately illustrate the relationship.)

1. The two "relationships" are in no way equivalent. Christ is said to be God, an omnimax deity, while the Church is made up of fallible humans. God and humans are not equal in knowledge, rational thinking skills, or intelligence, while men and women are. This is a completely ridiculous comparison.

2. You've simply asserted, not argued for, the idea that marriage can only be between a woman and a man. Also, all this talk about marriage is a red herring -- remember, the debater question is "why are there no women Biblical authors?" This has nothing to do with marriage.

Finally God has decreed that men have the responsibility for teaching and exercising spiritual leadership.

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
(1 Timothy 2:11-15 ESV)

The fact that only men were used to write the Bible doesn't mean that they are superior to women but that they play a different role in God's plan.

So the rationale for divine misogyny and the exclusion of women's narratives from the supposed word of God is that Eve ate the fruit before Adam? How does that make sense? Both Adam and Eve were deceived. Why does it matter who gave in first, and what does that have to do with any woman alive today? All men are not Adam, and all women are not Eve. Not all people within a given gender are the same or have similar personalities, interests, and moral strengths.

Honestly, the verses you've quoted sound nothing like the words of an omnimax God, but instead the inane and fatuous blatherings of ignorant, foolish, misogynistic, patriarchal ancient goat herders.

[Elijah John]

Well, it was a council who chose what books to put in, so if there were none in from women, then that is more on the council who decided what to include when making up the collection of books that we call the Bible.


If there were no women who wrote anything down, then that does not mean that God had something against them. Could simply be that none wanted to or could write something down. Maybe they even took their stuff to their husbands, who in turn were given credit for what was given to the woman.

It is the world that has been misogynistic. Not God.

Because women are able to prophecy, hear the Spirit, receive holy spirit, dream dreams (from the Spirit), receive visions and revelations, etc... all the same as men.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Yet according to Paul, women are not allowed to preside over meetings or teach. Why? because Paul takes the Adam and Eve story literally, and claims that EVE was created FROM Adam, a faulty premise.

[PghPanther]

There are many aspects of the culture at the time when these manuscripts were both written and canonized that we now know as being unjust or flat out immoral.......yet no recourse is made by any revelation from this claimed God of the past present and future in that time to right such wrongs......

Including the limitation of a woman's authority such as in authorship or canonical decisions............

Why couldn't one of the 10 commandments be something like........"no human may own another"...............or "no man is permitted to consider a woman as property".

If anything it points to the male authors creating a God in the image they want...not what is good righteous and pure as claimed.........

[puddleglum]

Actually, there have been some pregnant men.

Here is first paragraph of the article you linked to:

A transgender man who made headlines by giving birth to three children can divorce his wife of more than 10 years, an Arizona appeals court ruled on Wednesday, rejecting a lower court's decision.

The person who gave birth was actually a woman.

With that aside, why do biological differences imply differences in voice, leadership, and so on?

Because God chose to assign different responsibilities and rights to different sexes. In your OP you said, "Note: this thread operates under the assumption that the Christian god exists and conservative Christianity is true." If you disagree with me then by your own rule you must show by the Bible that I am wrong.

1. Not all marriages are mixed-sex; there are same-sex marriages.

There is no such thing as a same sex marriage. There are unions between two people of the same sex that are called marriages and are regarded by the government as marriages but if we follow the assumption of this thread that Christianity is true we can't call them marriages.

2. Why would it make sense to segregate rights and responsibilities on sex (not even gender, but biological sex?)?

Because that is what God chose to do. In this thread we must simply accept it as true whether we understand the reason or not.

What about men makes them inherently more qualified to lead, and what about women makes them inherently followers who must "submit and obey"?

Those are the roles God has chosen for them.

Also, all this talk about marriage is a red herring -- remember, the debater question is "why are there no women Biblical authors?" This has nothing to do with marriage.

The point I am making is that God assigns certain tasks on the basis of whether are person is male or female.

I would like to remind you again of what you said in the OP. "Note: this thread operates under the assumption that the Christian god exists and conservative Christianity is true." You have completely ignored that assumption in your response to my post. Can you refute anything I have said on the basis that it is contrary to the Bible?

[Haven]

[Replying to post 7 by puddleglum]

Pointing out the internal inconsistencies in the Bible is within the rules of this thread. If something is internally inconsistent it can't be true, and if I can show that conservative Christianity is self-contradictory, I can refute it without any kind of appeal to a secular reality.

[Clownboat]

Because God chose to assign different responsibilities and rights to different sexes.

Women carry babies, submit to their husbands and cannot lead in church. These are not responsibilities placed on women. This to me is like justifying slavery by assigning responsibilities to slaves. Not much different than saying to a slave that it is their responsibility to be your property.

In your OP you said, "Note: this thread operates under the assumption that the Christian god exists and conservative Christianity is true." If you disagree with me then by your own rule you must show by the Bible that I am wrong.

Not all Christians reject same sex marriages. You must ignore this fact in order to make your claim.

1. Not all marriages are mixed-sex; there are same-sex marriages.

There is no such thing as a same sex marriage. There are unions between two people of the same sex that are called marriages and are regarded by the government as marriages but if we follow the assumption of this thread that Christianity is true we can't call them marriages.

You seem to be arguing with language. There is no such thing as same sex marriages except for those same sex marriages that we call marriages.

2. Why would it make sense to segregate rights and responsibilities on sex (not even gender, but biological sex?)?

Because that is what God chose to do. In this thread we must simply accept it as true whether we understand the reason or not.

Please back up your claim that a god segregates rights and responsibilities by the way we have our biological sex.

What about men makes them inherently more qualified to lead, and what about women makes them inherently followers who must "submit and obey"?

Those are the roles God has chosen for them.

The ol' with all due respect scapegoat:
1) With all due respect, men are more qualified to lead and women more qualified to submit and obey. Why are you upset, I said "with all due respect"?
2) The Bible says, men are more qualified to lead and women more qualified to submit and obey. Why are you upset, I said " the Bible says so"?
Terrible things are terrible, no matter if you preface them with, 'with all due respect' or 'the Bible says so'.

Also, all this talk about marriage is a red herring -- remember, the debater question is "why are there no women Biblical authors?" This has nothing to do with marriage.

The point I am making is that God assigns certain tasks on the basis of whether are person is male or female.

To bad you cannot show that this trash comes from a god. Seems more like something ancient man would do if you ask me.

Either way, what tasks did god assign for women?
To carry babies and to submit and obey? Again, was man just assigning responsibilities to slaves back in the day too?

I would like to remind you again of what you said in the OP. "Note: this thread operates under the assumption that the Christian god exists and conservative Christianity is true." You have completely ignored that assumption in your response to my post. Can you refute anything I have said on the basis that it is contrary to the Bible?

Please use your Bible and show us the responsibilities that are assigned to women.
Carrying babies and submitting and obeying men have been covered already.

You're not a women are you?

[ttruscott]

...

Debate questions: Why weren't women tasked with writing the Bible? Why are there no women Biblical authors? Does the Christian god have a bias against women writing his words? Is the Christian god misogynistic for not including women in the writing process?

My Christian pov is not the ordinary pov and neither is my speculation of the status of women in fallen but elect society.

IMPCECO
Before the creation of the physical universe, the spirits were created, given their free will choices and some chose to rebel against GOD while others did not. The ones who chose to accept YHWH as their GOD were given the free gift of election to heaven by the salvation found in HIS Son. The ones who rejected by their free will both HIS deity and HIS promise of election to heaven by salvation from all future sin became the eternally evil demons.

When the time came to bring judgment upon the demons, YHWH asked all HIS elect to come out from among them in their hearts so the judgement on the demons would pass them over but a few of the elect sided with the demons that eternal hell was too big a penalty for disbelief, a sin of little consequence, that it was not loving for a GOD of love etc etc. By this choice they too self created themselves as evil in HIS sight and in need of the salvation HE had promised them. This caused the postponement of the judgement because it would have destroyed HIS sinful elect too and that must never happen.

Then HE asked HIS still faithful elect to come out from these newly sinful elect and then some of the faithful elect sided with the sinful elect, not trusting YHWH to deal with them in mercy and wanting to keep a loving solidarity with their newly sinful friends. Thus they too became sinful in GOD's sight and needed the redemption from their sin that was in the promise of election given to them. When all the decisions were made then GOD proved HIS deity by the creation of the physical universe with the Earth becoming the prison planet for all sinners with a rehabilitation clinic within it to help with the redemption of HIS sinful elect. Thus the sinful elect must live with the sinfulness of themselves and the reprobate until they learn the true nature of evil that it is much more than of little consequence but causes ceaseless suffering and will never repent.

So, in the garden we have a play in the garden that would seem to follow this script about the fall. First the serpent arrives evil with evil intent to turn the others against YHWH (to postpone the judgement). Then we have Eve engaging in theological discussion with the serpent as if he was her pastor or mentor or at least her friend which
resulted in her eating, following the same order of operations of the pre-earth fall. Lastly then did Adam eat, due to his friend eating, not because of the serpent's arguments nor friendship.

The parallel is obvious and if is the true meaning then the serpent stands for all the eternally evil reprobate, Eve stands for all those who followed the demons into sin out of idolatry of them over GOD and Adam stands for all those who chose to enter into sin out of a (loving) idolatry of their elect but sinful friends over GOD.

The Status of Women:
Since Eve was beguiled by the serpent she was put under Adam's protection who sinned for love for her and lost her right to hold high position. The pain of her childbirth was increased, not physically but because every birth reminds her that if she had not led others astray by her idolatry some of the other "Eves" and the "Adam's" would not have fallen and needing to be born into this life of suffering, that is, every birth was a reminder of the effects of her sin.

Was this symbolism actually enshrined into our genetic code with all elect Eve's being women and all elect Adams being men and that is why the rules are different for them in Church? I think the symbolism cannot extend to the reprobate who are willy-nilly either sex which confuses our speculations about reality.