Abortion Racism

[jcrawford]

Abortions performed by white male abortionists on the wives of black men in New York State without their knowledge and written consent are racist and genocidal, and should be outlawed. Attorney General Spitzer, Senator Clinton and NYC Mike Bloomberg all support the right of white men to perform abortions on the wives and daughters of married black men without their knowledge, informed consent and written permission. Spitzer, Clinton and Bloomberg are all white racists.

Questions for discussion and debate:

Should black men, particularly Black Muslims and Christians, vote for white racists like the above, or should they demand financial reparations from such white racists, abortionists and their supporters for killing the unborn fetuses of black marriages during the past 30 years in New York State? What right does Bloomberg have to walk around with 4 Billion bucks in his pocket when he has personally justified the right of white male abortionists to indiscriminately slaughter the unborn fetuses of countless married black men without so much as a hoot, damn or care for the reproductive rights and lives of married black men in America?

[jcrawford]

Just to keep the thread on topic:

In conjunction with Black History Month, the Chicago GOP wrote a profound pro-life editorial blaming the Democrat "pro-slavery" Party of "black genocide" because of its pro-abortion position:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=48831

[palmera]

jcrawford wrote

Just to keep the thread on topic:
Quote:
In conjunction with Black History Month, the Chicago GOP wrote a profound pro-life editorial blaming the Democrat "pro-slavery" Party of "black genocide" because of its pro-abortion position:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=48831

This article, and the Chicago GOP's release are both intellectually dishonest (which one person on the site you offered correctly points out.) It's infuriating that people actually read/listen to/are persuaded by Jill Stanek. If this is any indication of her normal writing then I hope that for the good of the people reading her, and especially herself, she undergoes some serious socratic questioning.

In regards to the initial prompt you've provided: I don't really understand the purpose of it. It doesn't support your claims by providing any facts; further the claims made by the Cook County GOP about the racism of the Democratic party are dishonest considering the historical reality of a split democratic party before 1960 and Nixon's "southern strategy" which successfully, although wrongly, portrayed THE democratic party as racist even though populist democrats were always for labor and minority rights.

Regarding the idea of abortion being racist and intended to exterminate the population of african americans here in america- well, it's just about ridiculous enough to merit non-response. The whole argument rests upon the proposition that people will be lazy enough/brainwashed enough to believe such horrendous conservative/pro-life propaganda because it's easier than doing any real thinking or researching to find the truth about many of the claims the movement makes; esp. in their spiteful and cowardly portrayal of Margaret Sanger.

I don't really see how this (if you're presenting it as such) is evidence of your claims.

[jcrawford]

Regarding the idea of abortion being racist and intended to exterminate the population of african americans here in america- well, it's just about ridiculous enough to merit non-response. The whole argument rests upon the proposition that people will be lazy enough/brainwashed enough to believe such horrendous conservative/pro-life propaganda because it's easier than doing any real thinking or researching to find the truth about many of the claims the movement makes; esp. in their spiteful and cowardly portrayal of Margaret Sanger.

I don't really see how this (if you're presenting it as such) is evidence of your claims.

I could throw weblinks at you all day and you would just bury your head in the sand.
http://www.eugenics-watch.com/roots/chap06.html

[Wyvern]

Actually since the article is from the GOP and it is denigrating towards the democratic party it can be ignored as a partisan smear tactic.
I do find it interesting that the writer states in one sentence that republicans in Chicago have to meet in catacombs and then in the next one states that they are overpowered. To call a political party pro slavery with your proof being a court case from nearly 150 years ago is disingenuous in the very least.

[palmera]

jcrawford wrote:

I could throw weblinks at you all day and you would just bury your head in the sand.
http://www.eugenics-watch.com/roots/chap06.html

You have got to be kidding me. For some odd reason I thought that this article might have some merit to it. I was wrong. It's nothing more than a second cowardly attack on a woman not even alive to defend the things she wrote. Further, it's a dishonest attack making claims about Sanger and feminism which just aren't true. Whether this is done out of ignorance or maliciously (since they have no argument otherwise) I don't know- I expect it's an ironic mixture of both. While there are certain claims Sanger made regarding eugenics (and which were not in any way shape or form adopted or proliferated by Planned Parenthood) those statements taken out of context twist the original ideas behind them. Isn't it odd to think that Dubois, MLKJr. and Eleanor Roosevelt were staunch allies of Sanger and her (and their common) cause?

Both of your articles have come from extremist sources and reflect not support for your claims, but abhorrent attempts to persuade using cowardice, inflammatory language, and outright lies. Please put forth some actual evidence- some data perhaps.

[Cephus]

Both of your articles have come from extremist sources and reflect not support for your claims, but abhorrent attempts to persuade using cowardice, inflammatory language, and outright lies. Please put forth some actual evidence- some data perhaps.

That's because his views are extremist and he has no actual evidence. Surely you've figured that out by now.

[jcrawford]

Both of your articles have come from extremist sources and reflect not support for your claims, but abhorrent attempts to persuade using cowardice, inflammatory language, and outright lies. Please put forth some actual evidence- some data perhaps.

That's because his views are extremist and he has no actual evidence. Surely you've figured that out by now.

Come on fellas. Get real or you lose the debate.

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/abortion.html

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/abortion05.html

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/creech/050221

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/2/212005mc.asp

http://www.bondinfo.org/media/articles/ ... ortion.htm

http://www.acts1711.com/sanger.htm

http://blackgenocide.org/negro.html

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020303.html

http://www.geocities.com/eingedi.geo/gi ... house.html

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/002/11.21.html

http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisteri ... ortion.htm

http://www.nrlc.org/news/1999/NRL299/regg.html

http://community-2.webtv.net/Nubianem2/ ... index.html

http://members.tripod.com/~joseromia/racism.html

[palmera]

Aside from the fact that yet again you've pasted ignorant claims, you still have yet to present any facts you've come up with. This is bordering on the ridiculous. It's easy to see how people are pulled into the abortion-is-racist genocide ideology; I'm sure it feels good for white people to make a stand for what they think are minority civil rights. But the fact is, they are being misguided through dishonest claims about planned parenthood, Sanger, and birth control.

While it is humorous that you think pasting websites ad infinitum will win an argument, it's also disturbing to see the volume of sites pasting large chunks of incorrect information from each others websites instead of actually researching the topic to come up with real facts.

First of all, black leaders like W.E. DuBois and Marting Luther King Jr. supported Sanger's birth control movement. Secondly, the NAACP, whose sole purpose is to promote african american issues and increase the quality of life for all african americans, has indorsed the cause of planned parenthood. Now, if you're willing to argue that two of the best african-american minds of the 20th century and the leading pro-black institution in America have both been duped, then by all means, carry your crusade of dishonesty onto that battlefield.

As of now, the crude mis-information you've posted does far more to impede your argument than support it. Also, if it's sheer numbers of websites you think will win you an argument, then I can just as easily post for you a great many of websites arguing for the existence of extra-terrestrial spies among us, the ubiquitous presence of UFOs and that aliens are responsible for the pyramids in Giza... by your logic, I'll surely have the argument well in hand.

[jcrawford]

But the fact is, they are being misguided through dishonest claims about planned parenthood, Sanger, and birth control.

How can you support that so-called fact? Any evidence?

First of all, black leaders like W.E. DuBois and Marting Luther King Jr. supported Sanger's birth control movement.

Where's your evidence?

Secondly, the NAACP, whose sole purpose is to promote african american issues and increase the quality of life for all african americans, has indorsed the cause of planned parenthood.

No support for that claim.

Now, if you're willing to argue that two of the best african-american minds of the 20th century and the leading pro-black institution in America have both been duped, then by all means, carry your crusade of dishonesty onto that battlefield.

I wouldn't be surprised if millionaires like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson also bless PP.

Also, if it's sheer numbers of websites you think will win you an argument, then I can just as easily post for you a great many of websites arguing for the existence of extra-terrestrial spies among us, the ubiquitous presence of UFOs and that aliens are responsible for the pyramids in Giza... by your logic, I'll surely have the argument well in hand.

Only if we are on a thread discussing that topic.
Since you don't provide any substantiation for your assertions on this thread any impartial observer, after reading mine, will undoubtedly claim that I win the debate by default on your part.

[palmera]

Ok, ok I'll take the bait- although turning your own argument's deficiencies back onto me doesn't really help your position.

jcrawford wrote

palmera wrote:
But the fact is, they are being misguided through dishonest claims about planned parenthood, Sanger, and birth control.

How can you support that so-called fact? Any evidence?

Planned Parenthood: This organization has been attacked as being racists genocide mongers, which (though it should be obvious) just isn't true. Further, they have been mislabeled as pro-abortion. It's an easy argument to make, and an easy one to fall for if you don't attend to how subtle, though important, the truth of the matter is. Planned Parenthood doesn't define itself as pro abortion, nor do they promote abortion as the means by which one may live a debaucherous lifestyle without consequence. PP, though it certainly offers abortion and abortion referrals as a service, promotes sexual awareness, education, responsibility and affordable, safe services arguing that it is the right of a woman to choose what to do with her body, not the state's. This link- http://plannedparenthood.com/pp2/portal ... event.xml- will take you to a page from PP titled: "5 Ways to Prevent Abortion." Sounds a lot like a document that would come from a bunch of genocidal baby killers huh?
Margaret Sanger: First of all, Sanger was not the mouth piece of pro-abortion, though she has been mis-represented as such. Not only was abortion dangerous, it was illegal in her lifetime and she never lobbied for it to be legal- rather, she pushed for educating all, mainly those of poor education and socio-economic standing, about contraceptives and birth control, in general. Also, many of the sites out there (including most of the ones you've posted here) misrepresent some of the things Sanger said/wrote- either by falsely attributing a quote to her, or by spinning her words into lies to suit their own propaganda. I posit that most of these sites do this not out of sheer intellectual dishonesty, but out of ignorance and sloth because they cut and paste "facts" from each other's sites without ever reading anything she wrote for themselves. Here are a few examples:

Published Statements that Distort or Misquote Margaret Sanger
Through the years, a number of alleged Sanger quotations, or allegations about her, have surfaced with regularity in anti-family planning publications:

"More children from the fit, less from the unfit — that is the chief issue in birth control."A quotation falsely attributed to Margaret Sanger, this statement was made by the editors of American Medicine in a review of an article by Sanger. The editorial from which this appeared, as well as Sanger's article, "Why Not Birth Control Clinics in America?" were reprinted side-by-side in the May 1919 Birth Control Review (Sanger, 1919b).

"The mass of ignorant Negroes still breed carelessly and disastrously, so that the increase among Negroes, even more than the increase among whites, is from that portion of the population least intelligent and fit, and least able to rear their children properly."
Another quotation falsely attributed to Margaret Sanger, this was actually written for the June 1932 issue of The Birth Control Review by W.E.B. DuBois, founder of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). Taken out of the context of his discussion about the effects of birth control on the balance between quality-of-life considerations and race-survival issues for African-Americans, Dubois' language seems insensitive by today's standards.

"Blacks, soldiers, and Jews are a menace to the race."This fabricated quotation, falsely attributed to Sanger, was concocted in the late 1980s. The alleged source is the April 1933 Birth Control Review (Sanger ceased editing the Review in 1929). That issue contains no article or letter by Sanger.

"To create a race of thoroughbreds . . ."This remark, again attributed originally to Sanger, was made by Dr. Edward A. Kempf and has been cited out of context and with distorted meaning. Dr. Kempf, a progressive physician, was actually arguing for state endowment of maternal and infant care clinics. In her book The Pivot of Civilization, Sanger quoted Dr. Kempf's argument about how environment may improve human excellence:


Society must make life worth the living and the refining for the individual by conditioning him to love and to seek the love-object in a manner that reflects a constructive effect upon his fellow-men and by giving him suitable opportunities. The virility of the automatic apparatus is destroyed by excessive gormandizing or hunger, by excessive wealth or poverty, by excessive work or idleness, by sexual abuse or intolerant prudishness. The noblest and most difficult art of all is the raising of human thoroughbreds (Sanger, 1922 [1969]).

It was in this spirit that Sanger used the phrase, "Birth Control: To Create a Race of Thoroughbreds," as a banner on the November 1921 issue of the Birth Control Review. (Differing slogans on the theme of voluntary family planning sometimes appeared under the title of The Review, e.g., "Dedicated to the Cause of Voluntary Motherhood," January 1928.)

"The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."This statement is taken out of context from Margaret Sanger's Woman and the New Race (Sanger, 1920). Sanger was making an ironic comment — not a prescriptive one — about the horrifying rate of infant mortality among large families of early 20th-century urban America. The statement, as grim as the conditions that prompted Sanger to make it, accompanied this chart, illustrating the infant death rate in 1920:



Deaths During First Year
1st born children 23% 7th born children 31%
2nd born children 20% 8th born children 33%
3rd born children 21% 9th born children 35%
4th born children 23% 10th born children 41%
5th born children 26% 11th born children 51%
6th born children 31% 12th born children 60%



"We do not want word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population."
Sanger was aware of African-American concerns, passionately argued by Marcus Garvey in the 1920s, that birth control was a threat to the survival of the black race. This statement, which acknowledges those fears, is taken from a letter to Clarence J. Gamble, M.D., a champion of the birth control movement. In that letter, Sanger describes her strategy to allay such apprehensions. A larger portion of the letter makes Sanger's meaning clear:


It seems to me from my experience . . . in North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas, that while the colored Negroes have great respect for white doctors, they can get closer to their own members and more or less lay their cards on the table. . . . They do not do this with the white people, and if we can train the Negro doctor at the clinic, he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results. . . . His work, in my opinion, should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County's white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us.
The minister's work is also important, and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation, as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs (Sanger, 1939, December).

"As early as 1914 Margaret Sanger was promoting abortion, not for white middle-class women, but against 'inferior races' — black people, poor people, Slavs, Latins, and Hebrews were 'human weeds.'"
This allegation about Margaret Sanger appears in an anonymous flyer, "Facts About Planned Parenthood," that is circulated by anti-family planning activists. Margaret Sanger, who passionately believed in a woman's right to control her body, never "promoted" abortion because it was illegal and dangerous throughout her lifetime. She urged women to use contraceptives so that they would not be at risk for the dangers of illegal, back-alley abortion. Sanger never described any ethnic community as an 'inferior race' or as 'human weeds.'

In her lifetime, Sanger won the respect of international figures of all races, including the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.; Mahatma Gandhi; Shidzue Kato, the foremost family planning advocate in Japan; and Lady Dhanvanthi Rama Rau of India — all of whom were sensitive to issues of race.

[Sorry for the huge block quote. I'm normally against using it, but in this case I thought it would be helpful.]

Birth Control: The main misinformation about BC is that it is often equated to, and thus limited in scope to, abortion- this is again, simply untrue; nor does bc even connote abortion except when used in such a context. The PP relation to bc is one about service and education, and perhaps most importantly as a means to prevent abortion!!!

jcrawford wrote:

Quote:
First of all, black leaders like W.E. DuBois and Marting Luther King Jr. supported Sanger's birth control movement.

Where's your evidence?

W.E. DeBois
Not only did he support her effort in 1930 to open a safe, affordable family planning clinic in Harlem, he was on the council of her "Negro Project" in 1939 which called the project "[a] "unique experiment in race-building and humanitarian service to a race subjected to discrimination, hardship, and segregation (Chesler, 1992)." Further more, the very first clinic, and those subsequent, in Harlem (and later in other predominately black areas) was staffed by a black doctor and black nurses. So, from the very beginning, the majority of abortions were not done by white doctors... hence, no racist hate crime.
MLK Jr.
The address written by MLK for the prize he received from PPF was read by his wife the late Coretta Scott King who said, before reading :

"I am proud tonight to say a word in behalf of your mentor, and the person who symbolizes the ideas of this organization, Margaret Sanger. Because of her dedication, her deep convictions, and for her suffering for what she believed in, I would like to say that I am proud to be a woman tonight."

Martin Luther King supported from the very beginning, the work of Sanger and of PPF. Here is an excerpt from his address entitled "Family Planning- A Special and Urgent Concern" which you can read here:http://plannedparenthood.com/pp2/portal ... r-king.xml

There is a striking kinship between our movement and Margaret Sanger's early efforts. She, like we, saw the horrifying conditions of ghetto life. Like we, she knew that all of society is poisoned by cancerous slums. Like we, she was a direct actionist — a nonviolent resister. She was willing to accept scorn and abuse until the truth she saw was revealed to the millions. At the turn of the century she went into the slums and set up a birth control clinic, and for this deed she went to jail because she was violating an unjust law. Yet the years have justified her actions. She launched a movement which is obeying a higher law to preserve human life under humane conditions. Margaret Sanger had to commit what was then called a crime in order to enrich humanity, and today we honor her courage and vision; for without them there would have been no beginning. Our sure beginning in the struggle for equality by nonviolent direct action may not have been so resolute without the tradition established by Margaret Sanger and people like her. Negroes have no mere academic nor ordinary interest in family planning. They have a special and urgent concern.

jcrawford wrote:

Quote:
Secondly, the NAACP, whose sole purpose is to promote african american issues and increase the quality of life for all african americans, has indorsed the cause of planned parenthood.

No support for that claim.

Though the NAACP has taken a pro-choice stance publicly since 2004, I guess it would be easy to be ignorant of the fact without following the group's actions. Here's a site to find their press release: (scroll down) http://www.fightpp.org/downloads/library/NAACP.rtf. [note the citation of W.E. DuBois]

jcrawford wrote:

Quote:
Now, if you're willing to argue that two of the best african-american minds of the 20th century and the leading pro-black institution in America have both been duped, then by all means, carry your crusade of dishonesty onto that battlefield.

I wouldn't be surprised if millionaires like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson also bless PP.

What???? Exactly what are you trying to say here?

Since you don't provide any substantiation for your assertions on this thread any impartial observer, after reading mine, will undoubtedly claim that I win the debate by default on your part.

'

Seriously?? I thought that was the exact point I was making about your argument. Not to mention- you didn't actually argue anything; you just cut and pasted websites. How would an impartial observer possibly understand your argument?