Pre-marital sex and relationships

[agnosticatheist]

Christians, you contend we are not supposed to have sex before we are MARRIED.

What is wrong with a couple who has been together for a long time having sex before they get married?

If you buy a car, or a house, dont you want to check it out before you buy it?

What if you are moving towards getting married? Dont you want to know what the person you will spend the rest of your life with looks like naked? And there's practical issues too. I dont want to get too graphic here, but the tightness of the female v***** varies from individual to individual, and the thickness of the male p**** varies from individual to individual. Dont you want to make sure your organs are compatible and not mismatched? Dont you want to know what your partner smells and tastes like? Dont you want to know if the female is or isnt allergic to your semen? Dont you want to know if your partner is frigid and non expressive or vibrant and expressive? Dont you want to know if your partner is down for trying a lot or is not open to much more than missionary?

Oh but no, you and God tell us we are supposed to basically do a blind buy with respect to one of the most important aspects of a normal marriage.

Yeah, sorry, but im going with reason here.

[agnosticatheist]

Lol. I think I made some people uncomfortable

[OnceConvinced]

You raise very valid points. People can end up with an unfulfilling sex life. Who wants that? But I think it goes beyond just sex too. You don't really get to know someone until you live with them every day. Some people out there are lovely until you move in with them. I found out that myself. Because before, you both did things your way and you had your own rules when it comes to the house. But then suddenly you are in a situation where you are both equal and you both have to compromise. When compromise is needed, then that's when you find the problems.

[agnosticatheist]

You raise very valid points. People can end up with an unfulfilling sex life. Who wants that? But I think it goes beyond just sex too. You don't really get to know someone until you live with them every day. Some people out there are lovely until you move in with them. I found out that myself. Because before, you both did things your way and you had your own rules when it comes to the house. But then suddenly you are in a situation where you are both equal and you both have to compromise. When compromise is needed, then that's when you find the problems.

Yup....

But oh no, lets do what god says instead and not do whats rational.

[OnceConvinced]

"God said so" or "The bible said so" used to be good enough for me. But now I ask why? God should be able to give good rational explanations why. But instead what we get seems to be a bunch of old men from thousands of years ago, who never got any themselves, putting rules on those of us that do.

When I look at the bible now, I see that it's all about the ownership of women. Keeping them virgins for the men who will one day own them. So woe betide any woman that goes and has sex before they end up with the man who is ultimately going to own them! And woe betide anyone who dares touch MY woman or MY future woman. They didn't want a woman who'd been already used by another man. Stone her if she dares has sex with anyone else!

[Yahu]

Christians, you contend we are not supposed to have sex before we are MARRIED.

What is wrong with a couple who has been together for a long time having sex before they get married?

Actually I see nothing wrong with that as a Christian. Scripture just calls it taking a concubine as opposed to a wife.

Yes, more Pharisaical Christians use an invalid definition of fornication that causes the problem. The have changed the definition of the word. In the original Hebrew definition of fornication is 'unlawful intercourse' whereas the Law is very clear on what is forbidden. No where in the law is pre-marital sex forbidden.

According to the Law, if you stay away from taking a girls virginity without marrying her, don't have sex with a close relative or someone else's wife or perform sexual worship of the pagan gods, it is all allowed.

Basically what is forbidden is causal sex to satisfy lust with strangers. There was nothing forbidding sex within a dedicated relationship.

[Yahu]

Dont you want to know if your partner is frigid and non expressive or vibrant and expressive?

Yeah, sorry, but im going with reason here.

I knew a girl that gave up her virginity to her fiance only to be dumped because he considered her frigid. She got engaged a 2nd time to another man and also got dumped when they became sexual active for the same reason. It nearly destroyed her.

It turned out she had a genetic trait passed down through her mother's family. All the women had tiny sex organs that didn't extend to the vaginal opening. As a result she didn't get the normal stimulation other girls did by basic sex.

Once she heard my wife talk about our sex life, she wanted to experience the same things. She even wanted me to be a polygamist and take her as a 2nd wife with my wife's permission. She asked me to marry her too. It turned out her g-spot worked just fine and with extra stimulation she realized there was nothing wrong with her but with the men she had been involved with in the past. They just didn't know how to meet her needs. She was NOT frigid.

I even had to talk with her father to explain to him how he could satisfy his own wife and they had been married for like 25 years. I got a kiss and thanks from her mother the next morning with tears in her eyes. Her mother had to tell all her sisters and nieces how to overcome the problems in their own marriages.

But unfortunately her father refused to give his blessings for his daughter to be a 2nd wife in a polygamist relationship. I had to release her from her vows.

[Wootah]

Christians, you contend we are not supposed to have sex before we are MARRIED.

What is wrong with a couple who has been together for a long time having sex before they get married?

Actually I see nothing wrong with that as a Christian. Scripture just calls it taking a concubine as opposed to a wife.

Yes, more Pharisaical Christians use an invalid definition of fornication that causes the problem. The have changed the definition of the word. In the original Hebrew definition of fornication is 'unlawful intercourse' whereas the Law is very clear on what is forbidden. No where in the law is pre-marital sex forbidden.

According to the Law, if you stay away from taking a girls virginity without marrying her, don't have sex with a close relative or someone else's wife or perform sexual worship of the pagan gods, it is all allowed.

Basically what is forbidden is causal sex to satisfy lust with strangers. There was nothing forbidding sex within a dedicated relationship.

Hi Yahu I thought the pharisees were the ones who made rules to justify themselves? Who justified themselves according to the law?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by agnosticatheist]

It should be noted that you stick within the boundaries of long term relationship. To my mind, post sex, a couple is spiritually married and so I didn't really see you arguing anything controversial. I think there is a pain for each couple as to the level of commitment without marriage. Does s/he really love me if there is no vow of for better or worse, in sickness and in health? In many long term defacto relationships that I know of I do find vows were made unofficially. Last month a couple I know that have 6 children married because they felt unsatisfied with the level of commitment.

I've personally had long term relationships, and when they end and I move on, I find myself with whole chunks of my life, with lots of good memories, that I cannot share with anyone.

That and many other factors are CONs that I hope to avoid this time around.

[Yahu]

Hi Yahu I thought the pharisees were the ones who made rules to justify themselves? Who justified themselves according to the law?

No pharisees are the ones that make up extensions to the law and make those extensions equal with the law.

For example, you can't walk more then so many steps on the Sabbath or its work.

In this case it is Pharisees that redefine fornication as any pre-marital sexual contact when it clearly only pertains to full intercourse. They also ignore taking concubines was totally allowed in the law. So was Jacob in error for having Rachael and Leah as wives and also having their maids as concubines? No of course not.

On top of that it was lawful to start sexual activities once the covenant was established. It didn't require waiting for the wedding celebration. That is why Marry wasn't instantly stoned when she turned up pregnant before the actual wedding with Joseph. Everyone just assumed it was Joseph child. Only Joseph could have had her stoned because only he knew it wasn't his child.

Now the pagan sexual rights was all about sex with strangers and ritualistic prostitutes. Basically those rights were the equivalent of modern 'one night stands' which is forbidden by my understanding. Remember the story of Balaam and Balak sending in the Moab women? They were performing sexual worship of Baal and Ashtoreth. That is what angered Yah and they reason they were killed.