The "plan of salvation"

[Elijah John]

It has always struck me as odd as to why the so-called "plan of salvation" seems so disjointed.

Bill Bright's "Four Spirtual Laws" for example, contains elements from the Gospel of John, the letters of Paul and the book of Revelation.

These "Laws" have been a model and used as well (as a variant) by the Billy Graham Evangelsitic Association.

The "Plan" includes (in order)

John 3.16
John 10.10
Romans 3.23
Romans 6.23
Romans 5.8
1 Corinthians 15;3-6
John 14.6
John 1.12
Ephesians 2.8,9
John 3.1-8
Revelation 3.20
1 John 5.11-13

Points of obeservation...remember, the books of the Bible were written independently of one another.

Notice there is NOTHING from the Synoptics in this typical "Plan of Salvation".

Questions for debate...

1) How can Evangelical Christianity be proven to be anything more than the theological opinions of John and Paul? (and Evangelicals like Bill Bright, for that matter)

2) If this "plan of salvation" if valid, Biblical and real, why isn't it all contained in one place, one Gospel? And repeated in each? Assuming of course, the "plan of salvation" is essential to one's eternal destiny.

3) If this "plan of salvation" is anything more than John and Paul's theological speculation, why are there NO verses from the Synoptics, 3/4 th's of the Gospels, why NOTHING from Matthew Mark and Luke in this "plan of salvation"?

[Revelations won]

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I think that when we consider the “Plan of Salvation� and all of it’s ramifications, that one must look at the “big picture� from it’s inception to it’s ultimate destiny.

Having said that, I would ask, when was this initiated as pertaining to us on this earth?

It is obvious that Adam and Eve played a dynamic role which affects every one of us.

My question is, was the choice made by Adam and his wife while in the garden of eden a good or bad decision?

Was this a monumental tragic mistake that carried with it such far reaching consequences that were out of harmony with God’s “Plan of Salvation�?

Or was this a well thought out decision by Adam which fulfilled this phase of “Plan of Salvation� ?

[Elijah John]

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I think that when we consider the “Plan of Salvation� and all of it’s ramifications, that one must look at the “big picture� from it’s inception to it’s ultimate destiny.

Having said that, I would ask, when was this initiated as pertaining to us on this earth?

It is obvious that Adam and Eve played a dynamic role which affects every one of us.

My question is, was the choice made by Adam and his wife while in the garden of eden a good or bad decision?

Was this a monumental tragic mistake that carried with it such far reaching consequences that were out of harmony with God’s “Plan of Salvation�?

Or was this a well thought out decision by Adam which fulfilled this phase of “Plan of Salvation� ?

It was myth to account for the problem of abuse of human free will, ie sin.

Yes, the "plan of salvation" is a broad theme of the Bible as a whole, but I'm more concerned with the Evangelical interpretion of this narrative, which seems focused by the lens of John and Paul, as though they are the final authorities on the matter. Or is it the Evangelicals like Bright, who make them the final authorities?

[ttruscott]

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My question is, was the choice made by Adam and his wife while in the garden of eden a good or bad decision?

Was this a monumental tragic mistake that carried with it such far reaching consequences that were out of harmony with God’s “Plan of Salvation�?

Or was this a well thought out decision by Adam which fulfilled this phase of “Plan of Salvation� ?

It was an obvious failure that they could not avoid which ended in the greatest blessing of their long lives, that is the opening of their eyes to their sinfulness/nakedness so they would repent and seek redemption (the fig leaves) and by having their worldly efforts ignored, were brought to Christ's death, (the skin coats).

This story is the story of the redemption and salvation of every sinful elect; first denial of guilt (no shame) then awareness they were indeed sinners (naked) by not being able to keep HIS commandment which they try to self cure with good works and long study only to end at the cross.

[Peds nurse]

Mr. EJ!!! Hope you are doing amazingly well

I wanted to clarify something. When you are talking about the plan of salvation, are you referring to believing that Jesus died on the cross for our sins? I want to make sure that we are on the same page!

Thanks so very much..EJ!!

[Elijah John]

Mr. EJ!!! Hope you are doing amazingly well

I wanted to clarify something. When you are talking about the plan of salvation, are you referring to believing that Jesus died on the cross for our sins? I want to make sure that we are on the same page!

Thanks so very much..EJ!!

Hi PN, I posted this link in post #9...this illustrates what I am referring to, the Evangelical "Plan of Salvation".

http://www.mesacc.edu/~thoqh49081/handouts/bright.html

The whole notion of Jesus dying to "pay for our sins" is, I contend, a Pauline notion, and not one that is too clear in the Synoptics.

In the Synoptics, Jesus empasizes repentance and humility more than "sacrifice"

In this, Jesus is in line with John the Baptist, and the prophets before him who stood against the Temple priestly (blood) sacrifice system

John (the Baptist) preached and performed baptisms of "repentance for the forgiveness of sins".

My point is that Evangelicals focus on the Gospel Evangelist John, and the letters of Paul to formulate their "plan of salvation".

One could look at the same Bible and focus on different areas (namely the Psalms and the Synoptics) and come up with an entirely different "plan of salvation".

But both plans acknowledge the need for the mercy of God and repentance on our part.

Might be a good future topic.

Peace and Blessings to you, PN.

[Revelations won]

So far no one has answered my original question.

"My question is, was the choice made by Adam and his wife while in the garden of eden a good or bad decision?"

[Tired of the Nonsense]

It has always struck me as odd as to why the so-called "plan of salvation" seems so disjointed.

Bill Bright's "Four Spirtual Laws" for example, contains elements from the Gospel of John, the letters of Paul and the book of Revelation.

These "Laws" have been a model and used as well (as a variant) by the Billy Graham Evangelsitic Association.

The "Plan" includes (in order)

John 3.16
John 10.10
Romans 3.23
Romans 6.23
Romans 5.8
1 Corinthians 15;3-6
John 14.6
John 1.12
Ephesians 2.8,9
John 3.1-8
Revelation 3.20
1 John 5.11-13

Points of obeservation...remember, the books of the Bible were written independently of one another.

Notice there is NOTHING from the Synoptics in this typical "Plan of Salvation".

Questions for debate...

1) How can Evangelical Christianity be proven to be anything more than the theological opinions of John and Paul? (and Evangelicals like Bill Bright, for that matter)

2) If this "plan of salvation" if valid, Biblical and real, why isn't it all contained in one place, one Gospel? And repeated in each? Assuming of course, the "plan of salvation" is essential to one's eternal destiny.

3) If this "plan of salvation" is anything more than John and Paul's theological speculation, why are there NO verses from the Synoptics, 3/4 th's of the Gospels, why NOTHING from Matthew Mark and Luke in this "plan of salvation"?

The plan of salvation:

Part 1) Tell everyone that each of us has an invisible part of us that is called the soul, and when we die this invisible soul will go to an invisible place to dwell with our invisible friends for ever and ever.

Part 2) Convince everyone to believe part 1.

The plan of nature:

Part 1) All living things die.

Part 2) End of story.

[Elijah John]

So far no one has answered my original question.

"My question is, was the choice made by Adam and his wife while in the garden of eden a good or bad decision?"

OK, it was a bad decision, but how does that relate to the Evangelical (Pauline and Johannine) view of the "plan of salvation?"

[Revelations won]

Elijah John, thanks for your response.

I am not concerned about the Evangelic "salvation interpretation at this point.

As you said, "it was a bad decision". Are you saying that it was a "decision" which they should have never made?

If they had not partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil then what is the other obvious result?

[Elijah John]

Elijah John, thanks for your response.

I am not concerned about the Evangelic "salvation interpretation at this point.

As you said, "it was a bad decision". Are you saying that it was a "decision" which they should have never made?

If they had not partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil then what is the other obvious result?

According to the myth, they would have lived forever. In the Garden.