Are you a tolorant Christian?

[postroad]

Is it right or wrong to do so even if you are certain they are incorrect. Or does correct belief not play into salvation?

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 9 by OnceConvinced]

Do you ever consider that the bible might be wrong?

Nah,

So you don't really change your views then. Not dramatically. You remain in that bubble, ie, the bible bubble and will not consider anything outside of it. So you really are confined to a very small field of thinking. Your views will only change so much.

life's too short, most of which I have already lived.

Indeed. So why waste any more time on a fantasy?

Look at it from my point of view. I was brought up in a Christian home and it wasn't until I was 40, I realised Christianity was a fantasy. I am now an Atheist. I cringe when I think of how much of my life I wasted on religious nonsense. I don't want to waste any more and I hate seeing others wasting their life on it.

No turning back for me, no future in that.

Says the man who insists he is willing to modify his views.

By restricting your thinking to only the bible you are potentially living in a fantasy, but you would never know because you are unwilling to look outside the bible bubble.

For me, I reached the very painful conclusion I had wasted 40 years of my life on rubbish. I had to face the facts. Now my life is richer because of it, although sadly I have most likely gone beyond the half way mark and am now past my physical prime. But at least I can look forward to the rest of my life free of religious nonsense.

What I consider to be wrong are the positions taken by atheists, former Christians, and Christians who misunderstand or misuse Bible verses in some way.

It is only your opinion that they misunderstand and misuse it. We Atheists think it is you Christians that misunderstand it and misuse it.

It all really comes down to perspective. Just because someone disagrees with your take on scripture does not mean they misunderstand or misuse it. But someone who insists they are willing to change their views, should be willing to consider that maybe they are the one who misunderstand or misuses.

For a person who claims to be willing to change their views, you seem to be very set in your ways, not being willing to budge... saying that there is no turning back. Your insistence that we misuse and misunderstand also shows that. You seem to be set in your views and unwilling to budge... at least not outside of the bible anyway!

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 11 by OnceConvinced]

It is only your opinion that they misunderstand and misuse it. We Atheists think it is you Christians that misunderstand it and misuse it.

That is your opinion.

Look at it from my point of view. I was brought up in a Christian home and it wasn't until I was 40, I realised Christianity was a fantasy.

That's where our opinions come from, our point of view, which comes from our life experiences.

I was not brought up in a Christian home and at around 23 had an experience that made me realise that Christianity was for real and I had been fooling myself.

I don't want to waste any more and I hate seeing others wasting their life on it.

Same here. Different perspective and goal, but same wish for others.

you seem to be very set in your ways, not being willing to budge... saying that there is no turning back.

Do you see? That is a perfect description of you today.

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 11 by OnceConvinced]

It is only your opinion that they misunderstand and misuse it. We Atheists think it is you Christians that misunderstand it and misuse it.

That is your opinion.

And a very valid one with evidence to back it up. Christians are forever at loggerheads about the bible including many important doctrines (as we can see on this website and in the real world). They can't agree.

So clearly it comes down to perspective. Christians see things many different ways. Skeptics see things a different way again. Who makes the judgement call about what has been misunderstood and misused? I doubt that person would be you.

Look at it from my point of view. I was brought up in a Christian home and it wasn't until I was 40, I realised Christianity was a fantasy.

That's where our opinions come from, our point of view, which comes from our life experiences.

I was not brought up in a Christian home and at around 23 had an experience that made me realise that Christianity was for real and I had been fooling myself.

I had a similar experience at the age of 16 which convinced me Christianity was for real. It enabled me to move on as a Christian (rather than just following it because that's what I had been taught to do). However around 24 years later, I had an epiphany, which lead me to lose my faith.

Based on what we are saying here, it should be obvious that it's all about perspective. Just because one holds different perspectives does not mean one is misunderstanding or misusing. What needs to be done is to determine which perspective, if either is the right one, which so far no one has been able to agree upon. Even Christians hold differing perspectives which lead them to interpret the bible differently. No Christian should ever be so arrogant as to presume they have it right, while the Atheists have it wrong.

I don't want to waste any more and I hate seeing others wasting their life on it.

Same here. Different perspective and goal, but same wish for others.

Once again it's about perspective, isn't it? As such we will look at the bible differently. That's not to say that either one of us is misusing it. As for our perspectives, we could both be wrong. We could both be misunderstanding a particular passage in the bible. Why should one believe they have it right while the other has it wrong?

you seem to be very set in your ways, not being willing to budge... saying that there is no turning back.

Do you see? That is a perfect description of you today.

As if! I never said there was no turning back. You said that, not me.

If someone can prove to that God is real and that Jesus is real then I would be forced to change my perspective back to that of the Christian one. In fact I would be very happy for that to happen. Who would not want to be a Christian if they could be one? What a wonderful delusion to be in. I wish I could go back there, but I just can't. It's not possible for me to do that unless I can know that it's not actually a delusion, but real.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 13 by OnceConvinced]

Based on what we are saying here, it should be obvious that it's all about perspective. Just because one holds different perspectives does not mean one is misunderstanding or misusing. What needs to be done is to determine which perspective, if either is the right one, which so far no one has been able to agree upon.

That's right. It's why we can have these debates and, hopefully, end each one by agreeing to disagree or by one or the other concluding the alternative is either possible or likely.

No Christian should ever be so arrogant as to presume they have it right, while the Atheists have it wrong.

We all make that presumption in some way, whether we are Christian, Atheist, or something else.

If someone can prove to that God is real and that Jesus is real then I would be forced to change my perspective back to that of the Christian one. In fact I would be very happy for that to happen. Who would not want to be a Christian if they could be one? What a wonderful delusion to be in. I wish I could go back there, but I just can't. It's not possible for me to do that unless I can know that it's not actually a delusion, but real.

I appreciate your candour and your genuineness.

[JehovahsWitness]

Is it right or wrong to do so even if you are certain they are incorrect. Or does correct belief not play into salvation?

I like to think so. I would never attempt to hurt or deny rights to others because I believe their life choices are wrong. In fact in my religion we are taught to show love to everyone regardless or their religious or moral choices.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[postroad]

[Replying to post 15 by JehovahsWitness]

Even the apostate JW?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 15 by JehovahsWitness]

Even the apostate JW?

Of course! If anybody needed my help, were hungry or hurt I'd not ask them for their politics before helping them. We are taught never to be unkind, to show compassion to everyone in imitation of Jesus.

Of course that doesn't mean tolerating evil; tolerating evil is not loving. Jesus threw out the money-changers from the temple, so I wouldn't tolerate an apostate attempting to corrupt my faith, my family or my congregation .... but that doesn't mean I'd try and get him fired from his job or attempt to run him down with my car.

[Strider324]

[Replying to post 5 by Yahu]

I am far harsher on those that teach doctrines of works based salvation...

You mean like Jesus? He's pretty clear in the story of Zacchaeus that salvation comes from works. (Luke 19)

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 5 by Yahu]

I am far harsher on those that teach doctrines of works based salvation...

You mean like Jesus? He's pretty clear in the story of Zacchaeus that salvation comes from works. (Luke 19)

That was not works, it was repentance, a change of mind that was shown in his words.

That is pretty clear.

[Strider324]

[Replying to post 5 by Yahu]

I am far harsher on those that teach doctrines of works based salvation...

You mean like Jesus? He's pretty clear in the story of Zacchaeus that salvation comes from works. (Luke 19)

That was not works, it was repentance, a change of mind that was shown in his words.

That is pretty clear.

No, it's not. What is clear is that Zacchaeus performed the WORKS of giving half his possessions to the poor. It was those WORKS that caused Jesus to declare his salvation had been achieved.