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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:13 am
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Question for JWs

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Do JW believe in second coming of Jesus?

What verses do you use as evidence?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:57 am
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Re: Question for JWs

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Wootah wrote:

Do JW believe in second coming of Jesus?

What verses do you use as evidence?



Hello,

Yes Jehovah's Witnesses do indeed believe in the "second coming"* of Jesus.

What verses do you use as evidence?


Quote:
MATTHEW

“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him [...] “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. These will depart into everlasting cutting-off- Mat 25: 31-32, 41, 46






JW



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MESSIANIC PROPHECY, LAST DAYS and ...THE SECOND COMING *
*The Return of Christ

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:46 am
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Right now we live in the time of Christ's presence and rule in Heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven as been established. The kingdom's reach to Earth has not happened yet because Jehovah is hoping for as many as are willing to repent and live. However, no one will see Jesus as a human, like they did back in the first century.

Acts 1:11, Luke 17:20, Rev 12:7-12, 2 Peter 3:9

I have never liked that term, '2nd coming'. It has become something of a cliche. Folks say it and believe it as they were taught from the pulpit. Never examining what it actually means.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:29 pm
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The interesting thing about the Jehovah's Witnesses church is the fact that they have prophesied about Christ returning many times -- and always been wrong. Charles Taze Russell said Jesus came back invisibly in 1874 and his kingdom would be established in 1914. He didn't and it wasn't.

Then the second president of the Watchtower, Judge Joseph Franklin Rutherford said that, in 1925, not only was the old order of things supposed to pass away, but the Old Testament patriarchs were to be resurrected and usher in the righteous government of Jehovah. It didn't happen.

Under Nathan Knorr, the church prepared for the end of human history and Armageddon in 1975 when Christ would appear and establish an earthly paradise. It didn't happen.

Under Milton Henschel, the Watchtower taught that God's kingdom would be established before all the generation of those born in 1914 had died. It didn't happen.

So my question is this: Why follow the Watchtower, thinking it is the one source of information from God, when it's wrong about so many things?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:48 am
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Overcomer wrote:

So my question is this: Why follow the Watchtower, thinking it is the one source of information from God, when it's wrong about so many things?



I don't follow the Watchtower it's a magazine, I follow (worship) my beloved God JEHOVAH and his appointed King Jesus Christ. I The Watchtower the Watchtower and have confidence the publishers of that magazine as a group because despite being wrong about many things, they have corrected their mistakes, stayed loyal to the bible and as a result been right about the things I see as more important.





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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=864789#864789

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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=891423#891423

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JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , THE 2ND COMING and ...FAILED PREDICTIONS,

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:26 am
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[Replying to post 4 by Overcomer]

Many people mistakenly think that Witnesses think that what is written in the Watchtower is inspired by God. It is not and we do not believe that anything written by any person today is inspired by God. The Bible is the only thing inspired by God. Our knowledge of the Bible is said to get brighter and brighter as time goes on. (Prov. 4:18)

During Jesus time on Earth his disciples misunderstood what Jesus was trying to explain on many occasions. Like them the Faithful and Discreet Slave also on occasions misunderstand the Bible. However, a dogmatic person, a person that expects perfection, and a person that can't forgive will have trouble understanding why stay with a flawed people. The simple answer to that for me is, these are the only people I know that will correct course. Also, any religion that says they are without mistakes then the truth is not with them. (1 John 1:8)

Meanwhile other religions will continue to practice and preach something they know is false. More worried about looking wrong or weak, correcting course to be right is pushed aside to 'save-face'. These religions are people pleasers. Tradition and people pleasing trumping what is right. I want God pleasing people not people pleasing people in my life. Witnesses embrace their weakness because we know that when we are weak, humble and reliant of God to correct us we are powerful. (2 Corinthians 12:9-11) So many religious traditions are empty having no Bible backing, also a trap and a snare. (Colossians 2:8) But they keep going as if nothing is wrong. Jehovah's Witnesses are not this way. We are not dogmatic and anybody who is dogmatic, a people pleaser, a traditionalist, unforgiving, or haughty will not stay with us and we are fine with that. People that embrace these things cause divisions in people and are contrary to the things we are taught. The Bible says, 'avoid them'. (Romans 16:17) We are taught to look for more accurate knowledge and to keep making our mind over to be sure we are still doing God's will thus we avoid dogmatism, we focus on how to please Jehovah rather than men, to beware of traditions, to be forgiving even when someone has done something wrong to us, and to stay humble as our lives depend on it. These teachings come from the Bible. Yet it is our publications that are mere pointing fingers to those Bible principles.

In the past were we went wrong is when we try to go beyond God's word. Try to interpret something by ourselves is where things go wrong. Yet even this we have learned our lesson. This is why even now I do not pay much attention to people who serve God based on their feelings or their heart, because I know the result of following ones own heart-based interpretations. It leads nowhere, in fact it misleads. (Jer. 17:9, 10)

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:57 am
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2timothy316 wrote:
Many people mistakenly think that Witnesses think that what is written in the Watchtower is inspired by God. It is not and we do not believe that anything written by any person today is inspired by God. The Bible is the only thing inspired by God. Our knowledge of the Bible is said to get brighter and brighter as time goes on. (Prov. 4:18)

During Jesus time on Earth his disciples misunderstood what Jesus was trying to explain on many occasions. Like them the Faithful and Discreet Slave also on occasions misunderstand the Bible. However, a dogmatic person, a person that expects perfection, and a person that can't forgive will have trouble understanding why stay with a flawed people. The simple answer to that for me is, these are the only people I know that will correct course. Also, any religion that says they are without mistakes then the truth is not with them. (1 John 1:8)

When and how is a Witness allowed to disagree with doctrinal decisions of the Faithful and Discreet Slave without being disfellowshipped? My understanding is that open disagreement (however humble) with official doctrine is grounds for dismissal. Am I wrong?

I guess whether or not an organization is willing to "correct course" is technically a different question than willingness to tolerate dissent, but they seem philosophically linked to me. It seems to me that an organization that recognizes the possibility of being mistaken should also embrace open discussion of doctrine. If it doesn't, disclaiming divine inspiration is just splitting theological hairs.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:46 pm
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Difflugia wrote:

2timothy316 wrote:
Many people mistakenly think that Witnesses think that what is written in the Watchtower is inspired by God. It is not and we do not believe that anything written by any person today is inspired by God. The Bible is the only thing inspired by God. Our knowledge of the Bible is said to get brighter and brighter as time goes on. (Prov. 4:18)

During Jesus time on Earth his disciples misunderstood what Jesus was trying to explain on many occasions. Like them the Faithful and Discreet Slave also on occasions misunderstand the Bible. However, a dogmatic person, a person that expects perfection, and a person that can't forgive will have trouble understanding why stay with a flawed people. The simple answer to that for me is, these are the only people I know that will correct course. Also, any religion that says they are without mistakes then the truth is not with them. (1 John 1:8)

When and how is a Witness allowed to disagree with doctrinal decisions of the Faithful and Discreet Slave without being disfellowshipped? My understanding is that open disagreement (however humble) with official doctrine is grounds for dismissal. Am I wrong?

Depends on what they don't agree with. I mean those that disagree that one shouldn't kill another person would certainly be disfellowshipped. On the other hand the type of clothes one should wear is not so ridged. Clothing varies from country to country. This is open for discussion but even what to wear is not without a Bible principle. There is clothing that doesn't bring honor to God. Even so, I have never heard of anyone being disfellowshipped for the clothes they wear.

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I guess whether or not an organization is willing to "correct course" is technically a different question than willingness to tolerate dissent, but they seem philosophically linked to me. It seems to me that an organization that recognizes the possibility of being mistaken should also embrace open discussion of doctrine. If it doesn't, disclaiming divine inspiration is just splitting theological hairs.

Open discussion sure, but cause divisions or stumbling no. There are many things that we do not know for sure and we do discuss a number of things. Yet commandments in the Bible are not up for debate. We really try to be careful about what we speculate on because someone might take it as truth and when our speculation doesn't pan out they could be stumbled because they thought what they hear was inspired by God, when it wasn't.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:50 pm
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2timothy316 wrote:
Depends on what they don't agree with.

Here are some examples. Could a Witness be disfellowshipped for professing any of these to another Witness?
  • Moses didn't write Genesis.
  • Paul didn't write Hebrews.
  • The Bible, properly understood, doesn't preclude biological evolution.
  • Acts 15:20 refers to blood as a digested meal, not a medical transfusion.
  • Christ's rule didn't actually begin in 1914.
If so, are the interpretations that led to the doctrines inspired?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:25 pm
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Difflugia wrote:

2timothy316 wrote:
Depends on what they don't agree with.

Here are some examples. Could a Witness be disfellowshipped for professing any of these to another Witness?
  • Moses didn't write Genesis.
  • Paul didn't write Hebrews.
  • The Bible, properly understood, doesn't preclude biological evolution.
  • Acts 15:20 refers to blood as a digested meal, not a medical transfusion.
  • Christ's rule didn't actually begin in 1914.
If so, are the interpretations that led to the doctrines inspired?

How is Moses not writing Genesis and Paul not writing Hebrews an interpretation? If a person doesn't believe 2 Tim 3:16. 17 is true than whats the point of wanting to be a Witness at all. So those will be ignored.

As far as evolution is concerned if a person teaches others that life came by accident and not by creation then they would be removed from the congregation. The Bible doesn't go into detail how life was created just that it was created.

Acts says "abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood." There is no mention anywhere else in the Bible where these things are allowed in another form. The Bible says abstain so we abstain and if a person is unrepentant in the improper use of blood than they would be disfellowshipped for willful breaking a commandment. We do not search for loopholes in defying Jehovah by making personal interpretations.

If a person refuses the Bible's prophecy in Daniel 4:1, 10-16 that Jesus became king in 1914 then yes that person would be removed from the congregation.

Take note I didn't quote a single WBTS publication. The Bible interprets the Bible. It's the only thing we have found that is reliable. Those that do not trust the Bible shouldn't want to be in a religion where the Bible is the center all instruction and direction. 2 Timothy 3:16 says that the scriptures are for setting things straight. If a person doesn't believe this then they are free to move on to a group that doesn't either.

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