What If...?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
theStudent
Guru
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:32 pm

What If...?

Post #1

Post by theStudent »

Currently, I am doing what was suggested by some on these forums.
I am researching information both for, and against evolution, and trust me - I am doing so objectively.
While I am still researching, I want to put this out, to hear the different views on it.

During my research I discovered that lately, just over the last decade or so, a lot of informations has been surfacing about fake fossils.
In fact it has now become common place for fossils sold at museums to be checked for genuineness.
I find this interesting.

Why now, is this happening?
Could it be that evidence as it always does, is now surfacing?

For example
Remember the dinosaur hoax - the one that was said to be put together using different bones?
It has recently been found out that it wasn't a hoax after all.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/02/ ... ecies.html

That is quite interesting.

The fossils aren't the only things that were/are claimed to be fake.
There are the drawings, and pictures as well.
Right now, I am going through a very long document considered a case against some of Darwins picture illustrations.
But have you ever come across this one?

Pictures from the past powerfully shape current views of the world. In books, television programs, and websites, new images appear alongside others that have survived from decades ago. Among the most famous are drawings of embryos by the Darwinist Ernst Haeckel in which humans and other vertebrates begin identical, then diverge toward their adult forms. But these icons of evolution are notorious, too: soon after their publication in 1868, a colleague alleged fraud, and Haeckel’s many enemies have repeated the charge ever since. His embryos nevertheless became a textbook staple until, in 1997, a biologist accused him again, and creationist advocates of intelligent design forced his figures out. How could the most controversial pictures in the history of science have become some of the most widely seen?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Haeckel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haec ... eks4-6.jpg
English: The pictures illustrate Ernst Haeckel's biogenetic law. In the beginning embryos of different species look remarkable similar, later different characteristics develop. The images initiated controversies and charges of fraud.

All of this lends to a possibility.
Consdering the fact that fossils can be faked, we must accept the fact that Darwin, and other scientists could have lied.

My question here, isn't whether he did lie or not, but rather, Does this not place evolutionists in the same position as the Christians they claim are believing in fables?

Consider:
Christians accept the Bible, as the word of God.
Here are just a few facts about the Bible.
With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time.
It has estimated annual sales of 100 million copies.
It has been a major influence on literature and history, especially in the West where the Gutenberg Bible was the first mass-printed book.
It was the first book ever printed using movable type.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

Archaeological findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, also called the Qumran Caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

The evidence is there however, that the book we hold in our hand today (the Bible), contains information written centuries ago.

Atheist call the book fables - the reason I have yet to find out.
Maybe one of the reasons is that they have not seen God, or seen him write any book - whatever.
So they claim that Christians' belief in them and what they present is blind faith, and belief in stories.

However, is this not the case with those who accept the theory of evolution, where all they have to go by, is what scientists claim to be evidence?

By the way...
No one, to this day have seen them recreate the theories.
Any data they give you on species, is usually what already existed (at least what I have come across so far).
As regards other claims, all we have are pictures, and claimed fossils, which could have been edited.

So evolutionists are really believing what men claim - without any substantial proof of their claim.
How is this different to believing a book?

And what if Darwin, and others lied?


I'm just interested in you different opinions and thoughts, on the above.
Here is a nice short video of someone's opinion. Reasonable too.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

arian
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:15 am
Location: AZ

Re: What If...?

Post #521

Post by arian »

JoeyKnothead wrote:
RonE wrote: [Replying to post 514 by rikuoamero]

Always a good idea to do the math. O:)
Unless it's "creationist math", where 1+1=God.

(clarificational editry)
That's only if we can capture the 1 first as it quantum fluctuates in and out of nothing, .. right Joey?

Besides, God is not 1, .. instead there is but One God, one Infinite, the only possible One.
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root.

Henry D. Thoreau

User avatar
Neatras
Guru
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:44 pm
Location: Oklahoma, US
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: What If...?

Post #522

Post by Neatras »

[Replying to post 518 by arian]

I can't speculate anything about your tone, but the way you phrase that makes it sound like you don't put much stock into quantum theory.

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2572 times

Re: What If...?

Post #523

Post by JoeyKnothead »

arian wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
RonE wrote: [Replying to post 514 by rikuoamero]

Always a good idea to do the math. O:)
Unless it's "creationist math", where 1+1=God.

(clarificational editry)
That's only if we can capture the 1 first as it quantum fluctuates in and out of nothing, .. right Joey?

Besides, God is not 1, .. instead there is but One God, one Infinite, the only possible One.
You win this round, my friendly nemesis!

I'll get you, I'll get you for it :tongue:
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

arian
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:15 am
Location: AZ

Re: What If...?

Post #524

Post by arian »

Neatras wrote: [Replying to post 518 by arian]

I can't speculate anything about your tone, but the way you phrase that makes it sound like you don't put much stock into quantum theory.
Actually, it was listening to YouTube lectures and other videos on quantum theory, .. quantum consciousness that lead me to start thinking more about subject like Infinite, nothing, Eternal, which lead me to understand how God created the universe, or creation itself.

I love quantum theory, maybe I can't understand their details, but the meaning as a whole, what they are after I really do understand. I think even better than they do, .. !?

Yeah right, .. right?
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root.

Henry D. Thoreau

arian
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:15 am
Location: AZ

Re: What If...?

Post #525

Post by arian »

JoeyKnothead wrote:
arian wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
RonE wrote: [Replying to post 514 by rikuoamero]

Always a good idea to do the math. O:)
Unless it's "creationist math", where 1+1=God.

(clarificational editry)
That's only if we can capture the 1 first as it quantum fluctuates in and out of nothing, .. right Joey?

Besides, God is not 1, .. instead there is but One God, one Infinite, the only possible One.
You win this round, my friendly nemesis!

I'll get you, I'll get you for it :tongue:
LOL, .. love you too Joey.

Only time I will consider winning is when you my friend see the reality of our Creator, and acknowledge it, .. so when I leave from this world, I know we will go fishing together, some crystal clear lake, full of all kinds of never before imagined fish, .. aaahhh... how I wish and pray!?
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root.

Henry D. Thoreau

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 9370
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 900 times
Been thanked: 1258 times

Re: What If...?

Post #526

Post by Clownboat »

arian wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
RonE wrote: [Replying to post 514 by rikuoamero]

Always a good idea to do the math. O:)
Unless it's "creationist math", where 1+1=God.

(clarificational editry)
That's only if we can capture the 1 first as it quantum fluctuates in and out of nothing, .. right Joey?

Besides, God is not 1, .. instead there is but One God, one Infinite, the only possible One.
To the bold. How easily this is to show as false:
http://universespirit.org/god-names-mas ... -religions
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 9370
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 900 times
Been thanked: 1258 times

Re: What If...?

Post #527

Post by Clownboat »

arian wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
arian wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
RonE wrote: [Replying to post 514 by rikuoamero]

Always a good idea to do the math. O:)
Unless it's "creationist math", where 1+1=God.

(clarificational editry)
That's only if we can capture the 1 first as it quantum fluctuates in and out of nothing, .. right Joey?

Besides, God is not 1, .. instead there is but One God, one Infinite, the only possible One.
You win this round, my friendly nemesis!

I'll get you, I'll get you for it :tongue:
LOL, .. love you too Joey.

Only time I will consider winning is when you my friend see the reality of our Creator, and acknowledge it, .. so when I leave from this world, I know we will go fishing together, some crystal clear lake, full of all kinds of never before imagined fish, .. aaahhh... how I wish and pray!?
Or... dun dun dun. Things will be exactly like they were before you were born.
I know, not as fun as fishing, but if afterlife fishing trips are on the table, then what I suggest surely should be as well.

But let's go with fishing
:tongue:
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

arian
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:15 am
Location: AZ

Re: What If...?

Post #528

Post by arian »

Clownboat wrote:
arian wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
RonE wrote: [Replying to post 514 by rikuoamero]

Always a good idea to do the math. O:)
Unless it's "creationist math", where 1+1=God.

(clarificational editry)
That's only if we can capture the 1 first as it quantum fluctuates in and out of nothing, .. right Joey?

Besides, God is not 1, .. instead there is but One God, one Infinite, the only possible One.
To the bold. How easily this is to show as false:
http://universespirit.org/god-names-mas ... -religions
Hello Clownboat, took you off ignore because this new ideology caught my attention, you know the one the atheist Morgan Freeman is used for promoting, also, so I can see if you have changed any yet or not?
But, .. doesn't look like it, you are still out there to deface God.

Hope all is well with you and yours!

OK, how does my post there show it's false??

Here is your site, what I found closest to how I and our Bible describe who our Creator is:
Universe-Spirit wrote: 44. Holy Spirit
45.I am Who am (a non qualitative personal Divinity)
49. Infinite one
52.Infinite Spirit

You may interpret the above names to mean or reflect any individual name or combination of names or states of a personal God, impersonal Ultimate or, science or humanistic Reality Totality concept that you would like to use.
As you can see, the above terms, .. names, or titles are described as: the most current omni-denominational and trans-denominational terms that are sometimes used by Universe community members who come from different backgrounds to convey their particular favorite Religion

Religion, .. the Christian Religion mentions the name Jesus, but how do they describe who Jesus is? Exactly, as a god, specifically "the sun-god", .. right?

You see, none of the titles, terms, names in that list means anything as is, and that was the purpose of creating it, which I am glad you brought up.

It's like the word "vehicle", you could refer to a mule-drawn cart, or the 3.4 million dollar "Limited Edition Bugatti Veyron by Mansory Vivere" as a vehicle. So in this Agenda 21, 2030 Sustainability.edu report (most likely coughed up at one of the 666CERN's 6LHC Temple meetings before they did their daily Kali-death-dance) to minimize the importance of knowing God our Creator, so they added His actual .. I don't know how to describe it, .. His actual essence I would say, .. right in with all the other religiously created gods, concepts of gods.

Here is the difference:

Our Creator (you see, I am not talking about a religion or its god/gods) instead, I am revealing the Creator of man, our Creator
is Infinite. To make sure you don't confuse Him with Joseph Smith, because he too is claimed to be God, and is now in Eternity or whatever, so I clarify this as;

God=Infinite and visa-versa Infinite=God
The word God can refer to just about anything (carved stone wood image) or anyone (deified fallen angel or man as god), so the MAIN definition is the word "Infinite"

Wait, I just realized something, if I say "God is Infinite" I could mean anyone (deified) or anything (carved) can be referred to as infinite, but if I say "Infinite is God", that narrows it down to one, the word "Infinite". Yes, thanks Clownboat, I guess I will stick to "Infinite is God" when explaining our Creator.

Now I said that "Infinite" (Who is also Eternal, well duh, ..) is conscious, as in "I Am".
This can be scientifically observed in ourselves, our brain vs. our mind, and upon observation we see that our brain is finite, it's a control panel that receives information, and we the "mind" can send information through it.

Our mind is both Infinite, and Eternal for there is no limit to what we can contain in it, that is; in us. Since we know that we did not create this universe and this world, THE Infinite that created us did. The other option would be us man, and I know not even Lawrence Kraus could create the universe, even though he did pull one out of nothing.
Supporting evidence, .. please refer to the Bible. (No, .. not stone-aged cave paintings, or millions and billions of years ago stories about fossils, and dug-up skull and bones, but the bronze aged Bible.)

So now that we understand that Infinite is conscious, the Bible refers to "Conscious Infinite" as Spirit (notice also I did not say "a" spirit like one from many, but "Spirit" the Infinite One.
Just as you cannot see my mind and I cannot see yours, because our mind is what? That's right, it's "spirit" invisible to the created physical world.

See, here is another "spirit" that you shown me who want's to berate, belittle our God with this new "Sustainability, .. equality, .. peace and prosperity" religious agenda:

Universe-spirit (agenda-21-2030) sustainability.edu: In addition to the science-grounded Great Mystery Ultimate Reality and other Religion 2.0 terms that we most commonly use, the above list is the most current omni-denominational and trans-denominational terms that are sometimes used by Universe community members who come from from different backgrounds to convey their particular favorite Religion 2.0 understanding of Ultimate Reality or their Religion 1.5 understanding of the absolute Allness of Eastern or Western non-personal and personal spiritualities and/or the Ultimate Concern of Science and Humanism.

You may interpret the above names to mean or reflect any individual name or combination of names or states of a personal God, impersonal Ultimate or, science or humanistic Reality Totality concept that you would like to use.

Please also note that in addition to our most often used term Ultimate Reality, some members of Religion 2.0 also occasionally uses several other different names like Universe Consciousness, Ever Present Origin, or similar terms for both the personalized absolute concepts of God (Yahweh, Christ, Goddess, Jehovah, Allah, Krishna, and the various Trinities, etc.) and/or for the non-personalized absolute concepts (Buddha, Buddhahood, Brahma, Consciousness, the Tao.)
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root.

Henry D. Thoreau

arian
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:15 am
Location: AZ

Re: What If...?

Post #529

Post by arian »

Clownboat wrote:
arian wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
arian wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:
RonE wrote: [Replying to post 514 by rikuoamero]

Always a good idea to do the math. O:)
Unless it's "creationist math", where 1+1=God.

(clarificational editry)
That's only if we can capture the 1 first as it quantum fluctuates in and out of nothing, .. right Joey?

Besides, God is not 1, .. instead there is but One God, one Infinite, the only possible One.
You win this round, my friendly nemesis!

I'll get you, I'll get you for it :tongue:
LOL, .. love you too Joey.

Only time I will consider winning is when you my friend see the reality of our Creator, and acknowledge it, .. so when I leave from this world, I know we will go fishing together, some crystal clear lake, full of all kinds of never before imagined fish, .. aaahhh... how I wish and pray!?
Or... dun dun dun. Things will be exactly like they were before you were born.
I know, not as fun as fishing, but if afterlife fishing trips are on the table, then what I suggest surely should be as well.

But let's go with fishing
:tongue:
Ah yes, .. things will be like before I was born, as if I never existed. That goes right-smack against your BB-Evolution Agenda 21-2030 religious beliefs. Here is what you're saying: "Same as it ever was"

Talking Heads - "Once in a lifetime"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1wg1DNHbNU

Crazy world, so yes, .. let's go fishing buddy!?
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root.

Henry D. Thoreau

User avatar
Neatras
Guru
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:44 pm
Location: Oklahoma, US
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: What If...?

Post #530

Post by Neatras »

arian wrote: I love quantum theory, maybe I can't understand their details, but the meaning as a whole, what they are after I really do understand. I think even better than they do, .. !?
Wrong. A layman should never be so arrogant as to think that their understanding of a scientific theory exceeds that of scientists who devote their whole lives to the study. The Dunning-Kruger effect applies here. Take heed of the fact that your knowledge of science will almost always fall short of actual scientists, if you're just a layperson.

Post Reply